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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD >> When to begin scratch building?
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When to begin scratch building? - 3/15/2003 1:19:49 AM   
PaPa-NeGeorgeo


 

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/5/2002
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Ive already completed two kits Kadet LT-40 and 4* 40. Both turned out pretty good. Lately ive been really looking for another plane to build. But since im flying impaired (im getting there just 63 more flights till i can solo lol) i cant build my favorite planes. (Mustang, DF Jet, Warhawk, etc..) Im a builder so building another trainer or sport flier doesn't really interest me. As ive looked through tower ive really only came upon one plane (kit) that fits the two of the three catogories im looking for (Beautiful scale looking plane, flies like a beginner plane, .40 size for transportation/money reasons). This plane is non other then the Topflite Cessna 182 skylane, ive been looking at this plane for at least 3 months saying i want this plane.
Problem: Kit is in a .60 size i need a .40 size. What to do.
How could i change this plane into a .40 size.
Solution: Down size the plans into a .40 size and scratch build it.
My question to you is although this plane is difficult to build do you think it would be a wise chose for someone like me to attempt to scratch something like this?
What i would do is get the dimesions of the GP ARF Cessna and basically build the same plane as the TF Cessna just smaller.

I just need to know how insane does this sound,

Thanks for any replies,

Papa
       Post #: 1

No hesitation - GO FOR IT! - 3/15/2003 1:50:08 AM   
a088008



Posts: 404
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		If you have a source for a .40 size plan of the Skylane then go for it!!! Scratch building just means that you get to cut everything yourself and find that they actually fit!

But if you design and build the plane yourself it will cost VERY little (if you have the tools). The design part is going to be tricky, but is perfectly doable with some help from the guys in this and the Aerodynamics forum.

-Q.

_____________________________

-Q

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
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When to begin scratch building? - 3/15/2003 3:05:11 AM   
PaPa-NeGeorgeo


 

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/5/2002
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		No i far as i know i dont have the experience yet to make my own design. I was thinking of somehow getting the plans on to my computer (on a CAD like program) and shrinking them somehow, then printing it off with one of those huge printers. Or i can get the plans cut the wings and photcopy them but shrunken down, then do the fuse and cross sections etc.. the same. Not exaclty sure how to do it but ill find a way maybe if someone has already done it i good buy a copy of them.

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
       Post #: 3

When to begin scratch building? - 3/15/2003 5:04:11 PM   
wau-dweeb



Posts: 32
Joined: 2/17/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I don't actually know when it should be done, 'cause i am as green as they can be in rc-plane hobby. However building stuff, any stuff with my hands is something i've always liked and my 3rd (!!!) rc-plane will be scratch built. Woods are already here I even plan to design my own model some day.

Hmm... Maybe i leave this kit I'm about to start in the box and make this scratch work 1st?

I am starting my scratch building with simple stick construction, Volksplane. Model of experimental plane of 70's (?). I was thinking about Aeronca L-3 and some other options too, but finally i decided not to be too ambitious (LOL, i even planned to make one ww1 plane as my 1st scratch plane). This one was simple 3 view plan without details. Still some drawing to do with it. I have to figure out myself how to mount motor, batteries, servos + stuff. I also scaled it from 600mm wingspan to 1m and I hope my plannig will work. If it doesn't fly, i hang it somewhere knowing that i still made it and i try to find out what to do to make next one flying.

I think that if you know how planes fly, how to use tools, you have a clue how to work with these materials and also have little imagination/ability to solve construction issues, you can build anything anytime you want. In every area, the work itself is your best teacher.

It will help (so i've read here) ofcourse, if you make more kits and find out, how things have done in them.

Do not belive a word as a fact, 'cause i just have decided to start my 1st one. These are my thoughts of scratch building. But as my personal opinion i can say, building something nice out from printed piece of paper and a pile of wood is one of the best things a man can do.

The best thing in criteria "things you can do alone"


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wauwau,

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When to begin scratch building? - 3/16/2003 11:39:32 PM   
Farmall


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 2/17/2003
From: Ligonier, IN
Status: offline 		I believe that Hostetler has plans for a 182, I know he has plans for a 206 and a 150 for sure. All of his plans are giant scale, 10' wingspan, but wait before you run off, he can print them to any size! Just tell him what wingspan you want and out they come. Of course you will have to some figuring as to what size wood to use since all of the original measurements will be shown on the drawings ie:1/4 X 1/2 which will really now be say 1/8 X 1/4 for example.

As far as I'm concerned it's never too early or too late to start scratch building, there was a time when that was how you started!
Lance

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
       Post #: 5

When to begin scratch building? - 3/17/2003 4:11:59 AM   
vtol_guy


 

Posts: 897
Joined: 1/13/2003
From: Driffield, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		go for it!! i haven't built a single kit yet, all mine i carved my own wood, bent that piano wire, pain stakingly stretched every part of my inner self just to get that servo in place, yes i remember it all NOW, the pain and misery of it all!!!

naa just kiddin, seriously though all my planes are scratch built except 2, seriously go for it, i see kits as the 'easier' way out of building


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I Am Sam.

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When to begin scratch building? - 3/17/2003 4:32:21 AM   
EddieFlyer


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/16/2003
From: Hays, KS
Status: offline 		Have you thought of looking through the RCM plans catalog? Also the December issue of Model Airplane News has their plans directory where you will find hundreds of great looking scale planes with different degrees of difficulty. I can't remember seeing a 182 in there, but you will have a huge selection of good looking planes designed for the scratch builder. The Top Flite 182 is a beautiful plane, but the plans do not have all the ribs on them, remember the 182 has a constant chord airfoil from the root to the flaps and from there to the tip they taper down. Also the stab tapers and has an airfoil shape with ribs, those aren't on the plan either, if you have a CAD program you can get those, or try to estimate the diminishing rib size for each one. You will need a scaled down front and rear canopy too. And you could make the cowl out of balsa, although you can order the GP .40 size cowling or the Fiberglass Specialties PICA 1/6 scale 182. Scratchbuilding is great, there is Nothing more satisfying for the builder...so go for it and good luck!

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
       Post #: 7

When to begin scratch building? - 3/17/2003 4:49:08 AM   
Flypaper 2



Posts: 4345
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Kingston, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Youv'e already built a few planes. when you boil it all down, on a high plane the proportions are basically the same. S o use a rib pattern from one you have because you know it works. so use the outline you like [Cessna] . Keep the distances the same, Like from front of wing to front of engine, back of wing to front of stab,etc. keep same cg. same rudder, stab areas. just change the shape. this a place to start. Read about different airfoils and what they do and try them out. A couple of good books are, Basics of R/C Model Aircraft Design published by Model Airplane News. Design and Build Your Own R/C aircraft by Ken L Smith.

_____________________________

Gord
Dreamed I was a muffler. Woke up exhausted.

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
       Post #: 8

When to begin scratch building? - 3/17/2003 6:14:57 AM   
PaPa-NeGeorgeo


 

Posts: 409
Joined: 11/5/2002
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Eddie, yes i plan to use the parts of the Cessna Gp ARF (cowl, windows etc..).
Flypaper, are you saying that i should just get the basic measurements of the plane and scratch build it myself? I would definently like to do that but it looks hard? My really worry though is ive never had to sheet the fuse. In the two previous kits ive always had a set fuse built for me. Maybe i can get i plan i just change the things i dont like and use the top-flite internet instruction book as a guide?
Do you know where i can find those books which one do you think would be more useful?
Also the big thing is how much aerodynamics and math do i have to know? I wont be creating my own airfoil or anything but is there any abstract math i need to know?

Thanks alot,

Papa

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
       Post #: 9

When to begin scratch building? - 3/17/2003 7:29:11 AM   
Flypaper 2



Posts: 4345
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Kingston, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Papa:
If your local hobby shop sells M.A.N. he should be able to order it for you. It's probably one of the best ones for you.Its more on design criteria than methods of construction. Might better buy a kit with a built up box fuse under your belt. Top flite kits are good to learn on this way. Don't be afraid to try it. Making mistakes is how you learn. Made a lot of mistakes along the way but none I couldn't get out of.

_____________________________

Gord
Dreamed I was a muffler. Woke up exhausted.

(in reply to PaPa-NeGeorgeo)
       Post #: 10

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