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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 9:35:40 AM   
littlecrankshaf



Posts: 2151
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From: here
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JorLRice

Hey guys,

If it was personal information about your own departure from an organization, you would not want it bantered around on the internet. Steve is no longer with us at AMA HQ and while some of the facts presented here are partially true, most are guesses and unsubstantiated.

The issue was discussed for a few minutes by the EC. The specifics of that discussion I am not at liberty to divulge and that is mostly out of courtesy for Steve Kaluf and Jim Cherry.

Actions such as this tear at the heart and mind of all parties. Ranting and raving does no good for anyone. I have every confidence that the AMA will rebound from this and continue to excel and I am equally confident that Steve will land on his feet and use his many talents to continue to provide for his family and the modeling public.

I hope you can all appreciate the fact that anything to do with personnel matters is taken very seriously and treated with confidence and respect. To enter into an exchange on this forum would be contrary to the employee confidence aspect all professional organizations and businesses practice.

I hope you understand regardless of what is written concerning this matter I cannot respond no matter how misleading or erroneous that information may be.

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP


Jim,

Thanks for your time to respond. You do make some very good points indeed. I for one can accept that you do not wish to expound further but I hope you can appreciate that as AMA members we feel that we at the very least deserve to know if Steve was terminated and if so by who and if so why; even if the only reason given is personal conflicts within the staff or with a superior. If Steve decided to leave on his own accord and only cites personal reasons that would suffice for most of us here also. If Steve was terminated, the reason(s) shouldn’t be a big secret.

Again, You are very right… detailed personal matters do not belong here but as matter of AMA business, actual personal reasons could be cited without further elaboration, other than that, exact reasons are not only permissible but obligatory IMO.

From what you post I get the distinct impression that there is a mutual personal conflict at the root but you stopped a little short of saying just that.

As of this moment, from what I have read, I am not sure if Steve was fired, forced to resign or resigned on his own accord. The only thing I can be certain of is that he is no longer with the AMA. That is a tremendous lose from my perspective at this moment.

I hope this does not just go under the carpet.


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Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to JorLRice)
       Post #: 26

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 12:42:28 PM   
OVSS Boss


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/11/2006
From: Lima, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Just as many have pointed out, Steve is a smart and talented guy, and did many things for the members. But just because a person has those qualities, does not mean that person was a positive influence and good supervisor within the structure of the organization? There are many parts to a job and we do not see large sections of a person's responsibilites.

It is amazing that so many can make the comments they have with absolutely no information about anything that has transpired other than their friendship with Steve. I cannot imagine this action was not taken without due diligence, the legal issues require it.

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
       Post #: 27

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 1:14:56 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Well until otherwise noted, I stand behind Jim Cherry's decision, mainly because I know this organization and the membership well enough to know that there is always alot more then the eye can see.

And also in one hand we are asking for a housecleaning on the other hand we complain about it when we see it. Steve might be the greatest guy on the planet, but there may be things we don't see behind the scenes.

As far as Steve being fired for hopping on a mower, let's get real. If you believe any part of that and have half a brain, then the other half needs an overhaul.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to OVSS Boss)
       Post #: 28

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 1:52:13 PM   
JUGFLIER


 

Posts: 955
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
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quote:

And also in one hand we are asking for a housecleaning on the other hand we complain about it when we see it. Steve might be the greatest guy on the planet, but there may be things we don't see behind the scenes.



I think the idea ofthe house cleaning goes higher up.

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 29

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 2:17:21 PM   
F106A



Posts: 1474
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I'm curious if Jim Cherry does in fact have the authority to summarily terminate employees without review by other officers/EC of AMA.
If so, this is an enormous amount of power for one person to have.
I'm Director of HR at a large manufacturing company and no one, including the President/owner, can just fire someone without the action being reviewed, usually by me, of the the circumstances surrounding the incident. Employees are suspended pending a review of the case. It's easier and cleaner to bring someone back from suspension that it is to rehire a wrongfully terminated employee.
Obviously, it's important to get all sides of the story and also check to insure there are no legal issues regarding race, sex, age,etc.
After the review then appropriate disciplinary action is taken.
I'm sure that AMA legal reviewed his contract, and to have included the power to unilaterally fire an employee seems very strange, not to mention the potentional of a wrongful termination lawsuit, but stranger things have happened.
Just an aside, I know better than try to get into a discussion with Dion; it's always a losing proposition since none of us know anything about anything as only he has the true knowledge. However, severance pay is used to prevent a wrongful termination lawsuit by an employee against the company. When the employee receives the severance pay package, they sign an agreement that, in consideration of the money, they waive their right to sue. There may or may not be a provision of non disclousre, usually not.
BRG,
Jon


< Message edited by F106A -- 8/17/2007 2:20:01 PM >

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 30

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 3:14:42 PM   
SSRCCPREZ



Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: F106A

I'm curious if Jim Cherry does in fact have the authority to summarily terminate employees without review by other officers/EC of AMA.
If so, this is an enormous amount of power for one person to have.
I'm Director of HR at a large manufacturing company and no one, including the President/owner, can just fire someone without the action being reviewed, usually by me, of the the circumstances surrounding the incident. Employees are suspended pending a review of the case. It's easier and cleaner to bring someone back from suspension that it is to rehire a wrongfully terminated employee.
Obviously, it's important to get all sides of the story and also check to insure there are no legal issues regarding race, sex, age,etc.
After the review then appropriate disciplinary action is taken.
I'm sure that AMA legal reviewed his contract, and to have included the power to unilaterally fire an employee seems very strange, not to mention the potentional of a wrongful termination lawsuit, but stranger things have happened.
Just an aside, I know better than try to get into a discussion with Dion; it's always a losing proposition since none of us know anything about anything as only he has the true knowledge. However, severance pay is used to prevent a wrongful termination lawsuit by an employee against the company. When the employee receives the severance pay package, they sign an agreement that, in consideration of the money, they waive their right to sue. There may or may not be a provision of non disclousre, usually not.
BRG,
Jon




Correct me if I am wrong, but unless the state is something other than an "at will" state, a non-contracted employee can be terminated for any reason whatso ever, as long as it is not race or sex related. I live in MAss, and I as an employer can terminate any employee for any reason I want as long as the employee is an "A Will" employee and I do not terminate based on sex,age, or creed. In other words if I want to fire you so I can hire my friend, I can. If I want to fire you because you are a pain in my butt, I can. I am the president of a coorporation and the siting chairman of the board of directors. I am essentially the ONLY person in the company who cannot be fired. If I termiante a manager or exec VP we typically offer severance to keep the individual quiet, not to avoid a wrongful termination lawsuit. Whic in fact a wrongful termination lawsuit is EXTREMELY difficult to prove and EXTREMELY difficult to get a lawyer to take. The temination has to be so obviouse or aggregiouse or you need someone to actually admit they terminated someone for racial or sexual predispositions....Essentially any employer in a "at will" state can fire at will. It would be up to the termianted employee to prove wrongful termiantion and the very company holds the evidence. Do you know how easy it is to write up whatever I want and stick it into a file...... Wringful termination only holds water in a contractual situation. Jim Cherry has the power, used it and it's over. If you don't like it, contact the DVP's and have them be your voice.

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(in reply to F106A)
       Post #: 31

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 4:04:17 PM   
DocYates



Posts: 2646
Joined: 1/2/2002
From: Killen, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I agree that the AMA may be a public institution, however the employee relationship they have with employees is a different matter and they are not allowed by law to come here and discuss the firing or hiring of employees, on a personal level. If that employee wants to do that, he or she may do so, but an employer is bound by laws not to be able to do that, and my guess is that the AVPs will not discuss those matters either.
If they want us to know, or think we need to know, they are still bound by the law.
Most of us fail to understand that the AMA still must function as an organiziation with rules, and though they may "answer" to their constitutents in the long run, they really do not have to explain their day to day actions to us.
I wish him well, and hope he finds a new job quickly if he is looking for one.
Tommy

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"Those who beat their swords into plowshares, will plow for those who did not".

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)
       Post #: 32

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 4:21:46 PM   
LSF2298


 

Posts: 252
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline 		If you can't be fired, why have a Board of Directors. You are King!

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)
       Post #: 33

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 4:54:08 PM   
F106A



Posts: 1474
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I don't recall that I commented on whether Cherry's action was right or wrong, I was just questioning whether he has the power to terminate without a review by officers/EC.
The issue is NOT to have a wrongful suit filed in the first place. It can cost LOTS of money and time to defend a wrongful termination lawsuit even if the company is in the right. Depending on the merits of the case there are plenty of lawyers that will take wrongful termination It's true you can fire anyone for any reason but it is very prudent that the company has a paper trail documenting the case if the info is needed later on. Also, it's expensive to fire someone. You have to find a replacement, train the person for a period of time resulting in lower productivity during the search and training phase. Of course there are very good reasons for termination, but terminating an employee because you want to hire your friend does not, IMHO, make good business sense. Can you do it, sure, but why would you?
If your comapany has policy that anyone can be dismissed at any time for any reason or no reason, good for you. Not sure how you maintain a productive workforce with the threat of termination hanging over their heads, but that's your problem.
Most companies don't have that type of policy and in fact review disciplinary actions, including terminations, especially if they have a unionized workforce.
All I'm trying to find out is whether Cherry has the power to do what he did without review.
BRG,
Jon

(in reply to SSRCCPREZ)
       Post #: 34

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 5:31:17 PM   
SSRCCPREZ



Posts: 462
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: MAnsfield, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I was using this as an example..I was not being literal. Of course there are replacement costs to termination. Of course we have procedures in place to terminate an employee, with written warnings etc. However, if the offense is deemed so aggregious or if I just have had it with an individual or they are not performing, i have the ability to terminate outside the procedure. As for having a B.O.D., this is a function of being incorporated, even if the B.O.D. is In name only.
I agree, the question begs to be answered does Cherry have the power....Can we see his contract?

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       Post #: 35

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 6:11:13 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Jim-

1. Thanx for posting in regards to the matter. It is good to see the D8 leadership comunicating directly with the members, timely, and on current issues before it becomes just something that happenen last month in a magazine.

2. I respectfully disagree with the base of your post.



STL-
I dont recall the Texans calling for the erradication of AMA employees that hop on mowers... If anything, we might commend getting some more tangable benefits from paying these guys: More work done for the same pay (and it was no pay / vacation so we save even more )
<IF the soundbite of a story we have is true, which is fishy at least>




While there is a time & place for restricting information of a personal or confidential type, this is a club of members and as such I a figure the leadership should not need to keep secrets from the members on operational matters. If it does come down to a personality conflict / personal problems type seperation, sure we members dont need the tabliod details but we do deserve to get 6 or 7 word explanation of Muncie actions... especially if there is a direct query on the subject to Muncie by a member (leader memeber?)

Also, I see the majority of the posts here recognize we are getting just a snip of what really happened, and qualify our posts as such. Mostly we used phrases like 'If thats true' and 'we dont have the full story, but'. We know there is a whole lot more to what happened.

...unless it really was the MidWest Mowers&Tillers Union that had him fired.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to JorLRice)
       Post #: 36

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 6:26:53 PM   
khodges


 

Posts: 5143
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: newton, NC, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: JorLRice



The issue was discussed for a few minutes by the EC. The specifics of that discussion I am not at liberty to divulge and that is mostly out of courtesy for Steve Kaluf and Jim Cherry.

I hope you can all appreciate the fact that anything to do with personnel matters is taken very seriously and treated with confidence and respect. To enter into an exchange on this forum would be contrary to the employee confidence aspect all professional organizations and businesses practice.

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP


If any part of his salary is paid by my or any other AMA members' dues, then I feel we have every right to know the details of his alleged transgression and the reasons for his departure. Rather than expound that you are on the inside and know what happened, but just can't tell the common folk, you could spend the energy that it took to post and give the straight skinny, if indeed you know; then you wouldn't have a bunch of people making assumtions and guesses about what really happened, as well as perpetrating an increased distrust of anything the AMA "leadership" says or does. These forums make as good a place as any, and better than most, to get the word to the masses.



< Message edited by khodges -- 8/17/2007 6:27:37 PM >

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       Post #: 37

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 6:28:00 PM   
JUGFLIER


 

Posts: 955
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I have to say i am torn on this issue, at one hand our right to know and on the other the privacy of an individual. If there was something there and the revelation of it could be such as to hinder this man from being able to make gainful employment. On the other hand there are issues with this that are troubling. I think that the direction of this thread might need to steer in the direction of someone recieving such authority as to totally undermine the confidence in the present system which is getting shakier by the day.

I am reminded of the words of a wise man who said " There is safety in a multitude of counselors." and another " Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I do think this may go to the heart of the struggle now for the heart of the AMA. One thing to think about, if you don't like the secretive and good ole boy mentality of AMA this is the year to change it, at the ballot box.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 38

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/17/2007 6:46:06 PM