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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 9:26:07 PM   
Red Scholefield



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From: Newberry, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Doc-
quote:

I exercise my right, I VOTE. You can do the same thing. SO can every AMA member out there, but in reality very few of them do...Why?


Uh, ballots with only one name to check? Hard to belive folks are not motivated to buy a stamp for the unopposed incumbant.

Methinks he just answerd the question himself. AMA ballots are post paid, have been that way for several years.




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Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 9:31:55 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocYates

I can pretty much tell you the date I stopped being "right", it was 20 years when I got married...LOL
I know I am neither perfect, nor always right. The biggest problem around here is that there are a heckuva lot of folks that know neither... I have even had times I will disagree with STL, but in this case I have to side with him, it is not our business.
My stance on this is not whether it was right or wrong for this man to get fired, it is whether it is right or wrong for us to insist that the AMA divulge personal information and employment records on those who work at the AMA. That is all.
Tommy

And no one is asking for personal information...just a real reason. I will concede… if AMA is just about business... fine...no need to know but if more like a club entity... yes, we should have more insight.

If my club’s BODs fired the mowing crew I would expect to know why but if a private entity owned the field and simply made a change, for whatever the reason, while maintaining our bargain it would matter little.



_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to DocYates)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 9:43:04 PM   
DocYates



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From: Killen, AL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield


quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Doc-
quote:

I exercise my right, I VOTE. You can do the same thing. SO can every AMA member out there, but in reality very few of them do...Why?


Uh, ballots with only one name to check? Hard to belive folks are not motivated to buy a stamp for the unopposed incumbant.

Methinks he just answerd the question himself. AMA ballots are post paid, have been that way for several years.





Red, you are right. If someone does't know that they are already post paid, they are probably not exercising their right to send them back in. KE, complaining about your choices is your right, you are not the only one that has to be pleased however. If you don't like the choices write one in, but vote.
I too don't necessarily like the fact that Hoss was left off the ticket, seems like he would have made a good candidate, at least he is interested enough to do something, and he tries to keep everyone informed. I don't neccesarily always agree with his methods, but I think his heart is in the right place. Doesn't make him wrong, nor me neither, but I support his right to be on the ticket. That being said, I am not going to dwell on it, and find something wrong with everything done at the AMA.
Tommy

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(in reply to Red Scholefield)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 9:56:40 PM   
STLPilot


 

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quote:

And no one is asking for personal information...just a real reason. I will concede… if AMA is just about business... fine...no need to know but if more like a club entity... yes, we should have more insight
But herein lies the problem, it's both, the AMA is a business, a corporation at that. Their "product" is a membership based organization. Problem is that members and even the employees are confusing where their place in life really belongs. Your membership benefits outline where you as an AMA member belong in the grand scheme of things, I suggest you read it and the bylaws. I can't find anywhere that says I'm involved anywhere with the admin of the AMA, but I do get a magazine.

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Here At The Wall

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 10:13:33 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Their "product" is a membership based organization.

Another slick twist and wrong as usual. Membership based organization as a product...get real.

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STLPilot)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 10:43:12 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf


quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Their "product" is a membership based organization.

Another slick twist and wrong as usual. Membership based organization as a product...get real.


I really do not think the original intent of those that founded AMA was to have it be a business…i.e. offering products and services as you claim STL, rather to be a membership based organization wherein members can collectively benefit while promoting the hobby. You and others apparently are trying to change the original concept by capitalizing on the hobby to promote the AMA. Yes…That is the true point of contention. Your concept intends to mine the hobby for its worth to the AMA business.

Some of us don’t buy into that philosophy. I sure do not buy into your twisted perceptions.


_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 10:49:31 PM   
STLPilot


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Their "product" is a membership based organization.

Another slick twist and wrong as usual. Membership based organization as a product...get real.
Hard to fathom huh, and you thought it was just some kind of insurance provider with a crappy magazine. But you might want to take a gander at the AMA bylaws, particularly under Article 2 and 3. You will clearly see what the AMA really does and where you and the rest of the members fit in.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 8/30/2007 10:52:15 PM >

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 10:51:00 PM   
DocYates



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Status: offline 		Crank,
You and I can finally agree on something. I too think the original intent of the AMA was not to be a business, and that its original intent has been either lost or refocused. I think you hit the nail on the head. It however does now have to act like a business in order to survive. They are forced to look at their expenditures and bottom line and make decisions that are sometimes unpopular because they know the majority of the modelers out there only really belong for one reason, the insurance and the neccessity to belong in order to use an AMA sanctioned field or attend a meet.
The promotion of aeromodeling has become a secondary concern, but still an important one.
That has little to do with the current discussion, but I guess one could argue that it is indirectly related.



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"Those who beat their swords into plowshares, will plow for those who did not".

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/30/2007 11:21:29 PM   
littlecrankshaf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocYates


The promotion of aeromodeling has become a secondary concern, but still an important one.





Unfortunately, that may very well be true. But I feel if this morphing is allowed to continue we will find the hobby in a place that only a few of us will be able to contend with in the future. Right now we are the beneficiaries of current conditions such as the arf/electric/inexpensive/readily available glut...it will end... then what? If we don't grow the hobby (the true hobby) now there will be nothing to support the AMA in the future and the whole hobby/sport may very well hang in the balance. Somewhere it seems to me that the AMA will have to put more emphases on the brotherhood now than the bottom line for the survival of all. If the trend continues as “AMA is big business”, we have put the writing on the wall for the future generations and will have sealed our fate. They will not be impressed not even a little bit.

Whatever Steve K did to get him removed may never be known but it is real clear that he was an overall asset to the AMA by being enthusiastic and transferring the same to others. We should be very careful when we allow mediocre business reasons to outweigh the synergy from enthusiasts like Steve. Sometimes swallowing one’s pride is something one should be proud of and would be overall the best plan…in this case that might apply to JC…but we may (probably) never know.




< Message edited by littlecrankshaf -- 8/30/2007 11:24:30 PM >

_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to DocYates)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 1:34:33 AM   
STLPilot


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
If the trend continues as “AMA is big business”, we have put the writing on the wall for the future generations and will have sealed our fate. They will not be impressed not even a little bit.
If you didn't live in denial you would realize the AMA is what it is. It's a corporation filed like any other corporation and does about 12-15mm in revs, tax free. You can't take away what the AMA is and what the AMA does, and not just what it does. If you realized this you would also realize that you don't get the right to have everything you want to get out of the AMA, when you want it. Your $58 only carries you so far (see membership benefits) and then next year you have to pay again. You don't get any piece of the AMA, it all belongs to the corporation, NONE of the AMA belongs to you. Sorry but that is the reality you don't need to pour your song and dance on to me.


< Message edited by STLPilot -- 8/31/2007 1:56:40 AM >

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 2:21:31 AM   
abel_pranger


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

If you didn't live in denial you would realize the AMA is what it is. It's a corporation filed like any other corporation and does about 12-15mm in revs, tax free.



Sorry STL, no matter how many times you repeat it, the fact that it is non-profit corporation isn't selling the notion that members' say doesn't count for anything. Many chartered clubs are corporations, under the same section of the IRS code that AMA is incorporated under. Try selling that same argument in the context of what the rights of members are in the running of their incorporated clubs.

Abel

(in reply to STLPilot)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 4:46:19 AM   
ira d


 

Posts: 836
Joined: 5/29/2003
From: Rancho Belago, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I also agree that members are supposed to have a say in how the AMA is run thats
why they have elections, the problem is that most of the membership is not that
much aware of the workings inside the AMA and many dont vote.

At my club i have only heard one person bring up Steves dismissal no one else
knew what he was talking about. He also was suprised to hear that the EC had
no power to intervien in Steves dismissal.

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Ira d

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 5:24:54 AM   
ldelbert


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ldelbert

WOW!! 27 pages and still no answer. Keep on digging you might reach China. When you get there tell them to send my Corsair cowl I ordered 1 1/2 months ago. I wanna get this thing flying.




Has anybody reached China yet? I need that dang cowl!!!

(in reply to ldelbert)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 6:34:59 AM   
KidEpoxy



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Status: offline 		If we do bring one back you cant use it,
you know, lead paint and all

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Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 10:57:15 AM