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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 7:05:54 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 805
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		So as I was browsing the news this came up. It is a quote from an article on yahoo news about the richest and poorest (based on gross household income) in the US.

The lowest income town of any with more than 65,000 population was Youngstown, Ohio at $21,850, which finished last by a large margin. Muncie, Indiana was its closest rival for this dubious distinction, with residents there earning $25,859, a difference of 18 percent.

Wow I need to visit this town just to see the second poorest town in America.
I wonder what it costs to buy a house there?

Why did I post this? No real idea other then it has to do with income in Munchie.

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 676

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 7:07:06 PM   
Silent-AV8R



Posts: 1829
Joined: 3/16/2004
From: SOCAL, CA, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Now you trying to be like STL...asking someone to prove negatives...that trick doesn't work here. Get real!


No, I am asking to find any phrasing in the AMA Bylaws regarding the issue at hand. You ask STL to look in the Bylaws for proof that the ED/EC do NOT have to communicate these matters to the membership. I asked you to find where it says they DO. It has nothing to do with proving a negative.

And since you are using the phrase, why not learn what it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/2006/01/you-cant-prove-negative.html

In this case we CAN obtain proof, or show that no such proof exists, by READING the bylaws. You asked STL to do so, I challenged you to do the same.

Oh well. None of this changes the fact, once more, say it with me... Federal and state laws prohibit the disclosure of personnel matters except in very tightly defined circumstances, like litigation.


_____________________________

Reality is Subjective. At least that's what I think.

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
       Post #: 677

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 7:48:43 PM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2371
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline
quote:

Listen Abel, here is the bottom line, the members say counts when they respect the AMA bylaws. If they don't respect and utilize the channels and procedures granted to them then what's the point of having them in the first place?

The AMA membership is in fact a by-product of the corporation. It's written in plain English in the bylaws, just start from the beginning. The point I'm trying to make with LCS is the fact that his rights end with the membership benefits. He and a few others think he's above what the AMA produces and part of the corporation itself, and they are not. The AMA does not issue stock.

Jim Cherry DOES NOT have answer to the members. He answers to the EC and if the EC decides it's in the best interest of the membership, they will relay the info to the members directly or in public, their choice.


Dion-

I'm falling way behind on this discussion - bear with me, I have a life.

Do you remember a post by Bill Oberdieck to this forum a few years ago that addressed the subject of AMA member's rights? Tried to find it, but apparently didn't happen on to the key search term(s). Anyway, it was not well received, but he may have had it right in the sense of reality vs. "Its your organization!" sales tripe. What you are saying paraphrases his words, so you may be right as well.
Wish I could find that post.........as he is running for AMA prexy and has declined to discuss his positions in the forums, it seems like something those that will vote should take into consideration re where he stands.

Abel

edited to correct deletion of a formatting operator

< Message edited by abel_pranger -- 8/31/2007 7:50:40 PM >

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 678

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 8:38:21 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Liberator-
Sure it is on topic.... if you just dig a little

Muncie is a low income place, with $25.8k
and AMA want to pay a guy to work there in a hobby for $45-65k

Does that mean we are paying a 2bedroom house a year localized salary?
Good thing AMA isnt in downtown SanFransisco/Manhattan

< Message edited by KidEpoxy -- 8/31/2007 8:39:38 PM >

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Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 679

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 8:56:17 PM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 5040
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Liberator-
Sure it is on topic.... if you just dig a little

Muncie is a low income place, with $25.8k
and AMA want to pay a guy to work there in a hobby for $45-65k

Does that mean we are paying a 2bedroom house a year localized salary?
Good thing AMA isnt in downtown SanFransisco/Manhattan


Muncie is a University Town (Ball State) - unfortunately these figures take in all the students as well.
See http://www.gainesville.com/article/20070829/NEWS/708290322

Gainesville Florida poverty rate at 33%, take out the students and its 11%.


_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 680

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 9:12:56 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Liberator-
Sure it is on topic.... if you just dig a little

Muncie is a low income place, with $25.8k
and AMA want to pay a guy to work there in a hobby for $45-65k

Does that mean we are paying a 2bedroom house a year localized salary?
Good thing AMA isnt in downtown SanFransisco/Manhattan

There he goes again "we are paying". You are not paying for anything owned or related to the AMA's assets, debts, overhead or salaries. You're membership benefits do NOT include stock in the company. What you said is something a stockholder would say about the part of the company they own. You know the old glass half/empty full thing right ... well think of it as only empty, that empty space belongs to you.



< Message edited by STLPilot -- 8/31/2007 9:20:33 PM >

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Here At The Wall

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 9:30:15 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		that money comes from Dues,
Dues come from We,
... WE are paying him. Without money from We, He dont get paid.
Unles he is getting paid from all the MA/FoamCores/Gliders/Chili profit.
Heck, if we are not paying him, lets make it $250k or a cool $1mil



Is this more STL logic that wants to take more $ from the members & give it to MA to make MA more profitable for the AMA? Just have the goverment print more money to get out of debt, and the AMA pays slaries with magic source-less money too.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 682

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 9:32:52 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		So when you go out and buy a pack of M&M's do you complain about the salaries you pay for at Mars too? No, you paid for your M&M's and you got your M&M's in return. You get what you paid for in the free commerce world.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 683

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 9:50:12 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I dont buy Mars brand M&Ms
I buy them hecho candies at walmart, and no, I dont complain about some guy in god knows what country getting 40cents a day to make chocolate-like snacks... but if I did, I would want him to get 35cents a day if it would make my Hechos even one cent cheaper, as well as cutting that 3rd world counry exec salary from $300/mo to $250.
Because I am not some great social experiment that has to evenly redistribute the worlds wealth.

Why post the salary of the Muncie job at $45k,
so some clowns making $20k will flood the application process?
Because we dont want someone to do it cheaper?

Why not hire a $25k guy to do it.
Hard to imagine, but if we pay enough to live alright in the locale (poorsville), why overpay by design?

<>\
oh, and M&M dont ask me to vote in their execs every year, but AMA does

< Message edited by KidEpoxy -- 8/31/2007 9:52:04 PM >

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 684

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 8/31/2007 10:54:10 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 805
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Ok Kid come clean. Do you REALLY think that someone in some third world country should make less money to charge you less?
Are you a Walmart shopper? Are you really ok with the whole Walmart ethic? Sell crappy goods at such low prices that people making good products can't compete and in the mean time the people in foreign countries getting paid 35 cents a day just work until they drop and the process repeats itself?

Just curious...

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 685

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/1/2007 1:27:25 AM   
8D3


 

Posts: 166
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Paris, AR, USA
Status: offline 		I may or may not agree w/ the "WalMart way",but if I need day to day things for around the house,its the only choice I got.Kinda like insuring my r/c planes ......

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 686

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/1/2007 2:03:07 AM   
LSF2298


 

Posts: 252
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Boynton Beach, FL, USA
Status: online 		But yesterday, the person had no job and made nothing!

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 687

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/1/2007 2:38:15 AM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
oh, and M&M dont ask me to vote in their execs every year, but AMA does
Right but when you eat you M&M's you can enjoy them, since you paid for them. You can even use them as chips in your chocolate cookies, they are very versatile little candies.

Oh by the way what does that vote get you??? Not even a simple question answered huh??? Yeah that's some strong ownership you got there.



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Here At The Wall

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 688

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/1/2007 3:34:02 AM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 805
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Wait I'm confused. It's ok then for a sweat shop to be created because at least then the person is working? I realize this is far afield from the topic, but that is a pretty twisted thing to say.
How about this novel concept. We actually pay people enough money to live? I know thats a hard pill for some to swallow, but hey, once a thing is said, it becomes easier to realize.

Bottom line is this, when the disparity between the lowest paid worker and the CEO is in the hundreds of millions of dollars per year, then we have an ethics problem.

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to LSF2298)
       Post #: 689

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/1/2007 3:41:24 AM   
RCKen



Posts: 15140
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Status: online 		Ok guys, I'm gonna step in here. I watched how this thread skewed off topic so I know how we got here, but it's time to get back to the discussion of the topic of the thread. We'll leave third world sweat shops, the Wal-mart evil empire, and the rest of that to other discussions. But let's get back to the topic of this thread or I'll have to close it down.

Ken

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The take off is optional, but the landing is MANDATORY!!
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(in reply to Liberator)