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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 1:25:36 AM   
combatpigg



Posts: 10103
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		The bone of contention is whether or not the truth is AMA property. I honestly look down upon others who don't respect and value the truth enough to demand it.
I don't care what the laws that some of you love to quote and hide behind have to say. Those laws were created by people with no moral principle, those laws were created out of fear.
It must be awful to base your existence on such "rodent-like" grounds?

< Message edited by combatpigg -- 9/2/2007 1:34:27 AM >

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Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to abel_pranger)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 1:56:40 AM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2371
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

<snip>
I don't care what the laws that some of you love to quote and hide behind have to say. Those laws were created by people with no moral principle, those laws were created out of fear.
It must be awful to base your existence on such "rodent-like" grounds?


Not to disagree (or agree w/o reservation) with you CP, I'm replying essentially to Dion et al who needs laws and rules to cite in order to make a judgment call as to what is right and not right. In that vein, I did scan thru the AMA bylaws and this is what I find therin as it applies to AMA members' rights and duties. Short list, so maybe it can be dissed quickly.

When accepted for AMA membership you must agree to:

- accept the AMA Articles of Incorporation <has anyone here ever seen this doc?>

- accept the AMA bylaws

- pay dues in the amount decided on by the AMA EC


As an AMA member (Leader or Open) you have the right to:

- vote for AMA Pres., EVP, and the VP that represents your district every 3 years (each position). Names on the ballots are selected by the EC.

- vote on issues 'duly moved' at the annual membership meeting, if present. If passed, this is an advisory vote only. EC makes final determination.

- join with at least 19 other members to make recommended bylaws changes to the bylaws committee.

- resign by written notice, if a member in good standing.

Did I overlook/omit anything important, Dion?

Abel

(in reply to combatpigg)
       Post #: 702

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 2:03:03 AM   
combatpigg



Posts: 10103
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		Abel, I wasn't directing my reply to you, I know what you stand for by now. I was speaking towards the other 2/3rds here who feel that it is their duty to inform me about "the way it is".

_____________________________

Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to abel_pranger)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 2:15:46 AM   
combatpigg



Posts: 10103
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online 		This ought to bring this thread to its' final destination? We now know what we as members are limited to have as members of this club, basically nothing in terms of opinion towards matters of common decency. If any of you have read "Animal Farm", this thread should seem like DEJAVU.

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< Message edited by combatpigg -- 9/2/2007 2:30:57 AM >

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Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 2:16:11 AM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Overlook, no list looks good. I'm just wondering why they picked the number 19 to rec a bylaws change. I guess it has something to do with it's never gotten over 18 before? Rather random number however.

Now we just have to decipher which judgement call you are speaking of so we can put your list into context.

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Here At The Wall

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 3:31:04 AM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2371
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From: St Augustine, FL,
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

I'm just wondering why they picked the number 19 to rec a bylaws change. I guess it has something to do with it's never gotten over 18 before? Rather random number however.



Dangitall, Dion -

With all the preachin' about it, I thought you must have read the Good Book. Reminder to Self: never assume.

Abel

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 706

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 4:27:11 AM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3934
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Abel, one minor overlook is that while any Open class member may recommend a bylaws change only "Leader" members can vote on them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

Overlook, no list looks good. I'm just wondering why they picked the number 19 to rec a bylaws change. I guess it has something to do with it's never gotten over 18 before? Rather random number however.

//snip//


That's a good one STL. Abel stated, "Join with 19 others...." Doesn't that make 20?

Just get 19 OTHERS (Open age class) members to sign your proposal and you have the right to submit that By-Laws change.

AMA BYLAWS
ARTICLE XV
Amendments

Recommendations for Bylaws changes may be proposed in writing by any
member of the Executive Council, any member of the Bylaws Committee,
or any 20 members of the Academy. The Executive Council shall direct
proposed amendments to the Bylaws Committee for recommendations
prior to deliberation by the Executive Council. If the recommended
amendment(s) are accepted by a majority vote of the Executive Council,
the amendment(s) must be ratified before adoption by a mail ballot to
Leader members. An affirmative vote of 2/3 of Leader members responding
within 45 days of issuance of a mail ballot shall adopt the amendment(s).

If the EC accepts your recommendation, then it will go to the Bylaws Committee where it will be filed in a black-hole somewhere way out in another universe, and shall never again be heard of. BTDT.
In addition, if such a ballot is mailed to the Leader members, don't expect that the, ".... issuance of a mail ballot..." to be the same date as the actual mailing date.

Now the last EC meeting, they voted to send the By-Laws recommendtions to the legal beavers for their review. That is most likely the black hole in a black hole. They have been working on this for too many years to remember exactly, 10 or so?
Productivity? Ah yes but not in those you select to lead you!



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T Roosevelt "..the man who really counts in the world is the doer, NOT the mere critic, the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, NOT the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."

(in reply to STLPilot)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 5:33:48 AM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2371
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

Abel, one minor overlook is that while any Open class member may recommend a bylaws change only "Leader" members can vote on them.




Dang it, Hoss, I should have included that.

So many Q's, I get confused.........

Like this. The official minutes of EC Meeting Apr 06 "Motion VII: Moved and seconded to offer Joyce Hager a three (3) year contract as Staff Director with a job description to be developed by the incoming Executive Director; salary as negotiated.
Motion passed unanimously."

I naively assumed (prompting another note to Self) that a Staff Director would be involved in things like hiring and firing staff. Yet this doesn't seem to be the case, as JH appears in the saga under discussion only as attendant to SK's otherwise unattended inbox. Interesting contract - she gets 3 years employment, doing what is TBD by the incoming ED. The job description is thus to be functionary to said, as yet unknown, ED. As things have evolved, she doesn't seem to have much to say about staffing matters. Any bets on who is next in line for having their job pared down to obsolescence? Not really a Q, just a comment.
The new whiz kid has a helluva way of running a railroad.

Abel

(in reply to Hossfly)
       Post #: 708

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 5:12:30 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

- join with at least 19 other members to make recommended bylaws changes to the bylaws committee.


good find Able

Kinda blows the M&Ms analogy out of the water.
my OTHER insurance company (GeicoAuto) doesnt provide a path for ProductPurchasers to change the corp bylaws, so the AMA Membership as just a product from an insurance co dont make sense.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to abel_pranger)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 8:17:38 PM   
The Toolman


 

Posts: 916
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Does anybody even know if the ama is even owned by themselves anymore? Or could it be possible that they are owned silently by the Ins Co. I know a lot of small corps are owned by bigger ones that most people wouldn't even know about.

By the way, who the heck is our insurance company anyway, an I don't want to hear somebody say it's the ama.....


Ronnie

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Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 8:26:46 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You mean other than the big Self Insured amount?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 8:30:31 PM   
The Toolman


 

Posts: 916
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Yes sir, thats what I meant......



Ronnie

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Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 8:48:23 PM   
JUGFLIER


 

Posts: 955
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Muscle Shoals, AL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

The job description is thus to be functionary to said, as yet unknown, ED. As things have evolved, she doesn't seem to have much to say about staffing matters. Any bets on who is next in line for having their job pared down to obsolescence? Not really a Q, just a comment


This is an observation i had totally overlooked. Do we see a trend here? Is the ED going to take over the functionality of all the jobs at AMA? Talk about micro manage. Maybe he takes away the responsibilities to take away salaries, then the people quit or get fired at which he then rehires at a lower salary, then slowly restores the original job responibilities. I wonder is JC paid a bonus on all this money he is trying to save us?

(in reply to abel_pranger)
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/2/2007 9:23:44 PM   
tailskid



Posts: 5528
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Tolleson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I'm sure we are not privy to that kind of information!

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# 93 in Club Saito

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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/3/2007 6:27:30 PM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3934
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Toolman

Does anybody even know if the ama is even owned by themselves anymore? Or could it be possible that they are owned silently by the Ins Co. I know a lot of small corps are owned by bigger ones that most people wouldn't even know about.

By the way, who the heck is our insurance company anyway, an I don't want to hear somebody say it's the ama.....


Ronnie


Insur. Co.:

Westchester Surplus lines Insurance Co.
500 Colonial Center Parkway, Suite 200
Roswell, GA 30076

Representative:

Illinois Union Insur. Co.
525 W. Monroe St. St 400
Chicago, IL 60661

http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/500-l.pdf

I don't think the insurance co. would have any interest in owning a non-stoc