RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA
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RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/16/2007 9:32:17 PM

STLPilot

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From: Manhattan, NY, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
At least Steve had the courage to post his perspective and take whatever the consequences like a man...I can respect that! Until some real contradictive information is made available I will continue to discount the likes of STL and his BS.

We lost Steve because he and his son volunteered to help mow for an upcoming event while he was on vacation. That is what we know as of right now!

And here I thought you had such valuable information which vindicated your friend. So much for that BS farmer joe.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)

Post #: 826

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 12:02:45 AM

tadawson

Posts: 478
Joined: 9/5/2002
From: Lewisville, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot

quote:

Back when Leck Walesa organized the nationwide labor strike of Poland against their "masters", the old Soviet Union, our reporters interviewed several of the average Russians in the street about what they thought about that. The typical tone of their responses wasn't too far removed from the quote that we have above. Many of those people were very well programmed, very well indoctrinated party liners. "Good dogs".

So then explain to us, how does one get fired in this country? Do you get fired for doing your job properly and then even going above and beyond the call of duty and volunteering your own time to do more work after required hours? Is that the way you lose your job these days?

If you work for a buffoon with personal agendas and a very poor sense of ethics, then yes, that's EXACTLY how a lot of folks lose their jobs these days. It's not about performance - it's about politics and kissing ass . . .

- Tim

(in reply to STLPilot)

Post #: 827

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 1:17:22 AM

KidEpoxy

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Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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I am still looking forward to getting the truth out of Muncie,
and when we get the whole story,
I might say JC did the right thing.

That is the best part of this thread,
no matter what info if any comes out of Muncie,
I can either say I dont judge without evidence, or even say JC was right to fire SK...
All along I have been asking for info, not declaring anyone guilty
Thats right, I would be able to say Cherry was right without backpedalling, should we actually get info that shows that.

All of page1 was folks sayin IF it were true JC is a jerk, and they acknowleged they didnt have the whole story.

Of course, STL had made up his mind before post2, and even makes one(or more) of our Muncie folks a criminal
(He alleges to have AMA personal info, and asserts being giving that info is illegal.... but then, he also encouraged us to call Muncie & lie about our Identity & Pretence to get info he says AMA would be criminal to give... so I'm not sure what he is upto.)

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to tadawson)

Post #: 828

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 1:40:40 AM

Stickbuilder

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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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Kid,

There is the privacy act to consider here. The AMA and whomever gives any information that would be considered in the private domain, would open themselves and the AMA to serious liability. In short, whatever happened is not any of anyone's business, except for the parties involved. You can beat this issue until you are blue in the face, and you will get nothing from either the AMA or Jim Cherry. It's none of your business, nor is it any of anyone elses. You can posture and rant all you want, but you won't change it. Steve is gone. Jim is still there. Those are facts. Anything else is pure conjecture.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bulldog Brotherhood #85

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 829

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 2:12:45 AM

KidEpoxy

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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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Stick-
So are agreeing with STL that the leak he alegedly got was a criminal act?
Violating Indiana privacy laws regarding job performance.... that is what we call folks that break the law, a criminal, right?

If JC will fire a guy for riding a mower, what will he do to the guy that is criminally leaking AMA private info?
We know it wasnt Jim Rice, he knows how to not blab info to random guys.
We know it wasnt AMA Wayne.... uh... cause he was here talking about SK.... uh.... um....

Stick, how do Wayne's posts fit in you & STL's legal scheme again?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 830

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 2:18:25 AM

Silent-AV8R

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From: SOCAL, CA, USA
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Still at it??

Amazing.

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Reality is Subjective. At least that's what I think.

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Post #: 831

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 3:18:51 AM

Stickbuilder

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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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Kid,

It's not a legal scheme. If you will do a little research on the law as it pertains to the termination, or resignation of an employee, you will see what I'm talking about. You simply can't discuss it. If another prospective employer asks for a reference, all you can legally tell them is the starting and ending dates of their employment. If you tell them more than that, you leave yourself open to a lawsuit that you won't win.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Bulldog Brotherhood #85

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 832

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 4:39:54 AM

KidEpoxy

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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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quote:

"you leave yourself open to a lawsuit that you won't win"

that sounds a lot like "can go into closed session" but not "have to go into closed session" of the Sunshine stuff

So, to be clear,
if they say more than the Starting Date & Ending Date they have broken the law?
(what I refer to as Committing Crime)
.... or just a high potential for Libel/Slander info & suits.
.... potential, as in, it wont be libel if it is true.... leaving just potential slander.... which is hard to do if you heap praise on the guy.

I can tell you guys know exactly where I am taking this,
and it is a hoot to wrangle yall to say 'yes it is illegal, but not when AMA emplyees do it.'

< Message edited by KidEpoxy -- 9/17/2007 7:04:31 AM >

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

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Post #: 833

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/17/2007 5:12:26 AM

combatpigg

Posts: 10103
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online

Please tell me about all of these law suits. How am I going to know if my ex-employer has given out information about me that a prospective employer uses to deep six my resume?
If I list an ex-employer as a reference, then I am implying that it is OK to contact them about my performance record. The worst thing an ex-employer could do besides give me a bad review is to say, "no comment", that looks just as bad....in the world that I live in, that is.
No matter what your profession or trade, it is a small world out there and word about your skill and reputation travels fast and freely....and that is the way it should be. In the real world it is the job hunter whose resume has landed in my lap who has no right to know what I found out about him or about what who said what to who, he is the one who must patiently and quietly sit there and wait for either a thumbs or not from me. If not, he is shown the door and his resume becomes compost.

< Message edited by combatpigg -- 9/17/2007 6:01:28 AM >

_____________________________

Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 834

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/18/2007 5:30:59 PM

Stickbuilder

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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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CP,

You probably won't know what information has been divulged. There have been instances where the prospective employer has told the applicant that his previous work history did not support the application, or that the work history was not satisfactory, thus the reluctance to give any other information other than hire date/ ending date. It's all about C.Y.A.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to combatpigg)

Post #: 835

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/18/2007 6:36:55 PM

KidEpoxy

Posts: 3604
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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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Stick-
again, the language that has permeated the workplace is CYA,
not Obey The Law.

It is about potential to say the wrong thing, so to CYA they choose to say nothing.
Where is the PenalCode that prohibits employers from praising employee's performance in letters of recomendation? Or praising them over the phone.

it is Avoid Lawsuits for saying the wrong thing, by choosing to say nothing,
not Obey the Law banning anything but start & end dates.

I notice nobody wants to talk about Wayne right now....
now that they are posting how sayng anything is illegal.

(STL, I'm looking your way)

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 836

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/19/2007 1:08:41 AM

Stickbuilder

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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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Kid,

If information that was given in good faith, by a previous employer is found to be erroneous (even slightly) then the previous employer can (and has been) found guilty of libelious information, which is punishable both criminally, as well as civilly. That is the reason that most employers only give dates of employment.

In this case, what business of yours (not personally, but the membership, at large) is precisely what happened? Will it make Steve regain his job? Probably not. Would the disemination of that information cost Mr. Cherry his job? Again, probably not. So just exactly what do you hope to gain with that information?

The best advice here is to let it die. Nothing that will be discussed in this forum will alter the outcome, other than to strengthen the resolve of some of the involved parties. The only thing that could alter the outcome would be a suit for wrongful termination, and the courts of law would decide the resolution of that, certainly nothing would result from the outcome of this thread.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)

Post #: 837

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/19/2007 1:21:35 AM

combatpigg

Posts: 10103
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online

You don't have to be real sharp to know that this thread will not alter the course of history, or of the future. It is beyond the scope of discussion to spend any time be-laboring this point. What I am after is the personal satisfaction that my protest of this ham fisted, bush league spectacle has been heard and understood loud and clear. Business at MY AMA should not be conducted like another episode of the Andy Griffith Show.

The firing of a man is one of the most serious things that another man can do, and in this case it was botched. Based on the grounds for why he was actually fired, [the action that caused JC to pull the trigger], this case would have the ACLU licking their chops.

< Message edited by combatpigg -- 9/19/2007 1:32:19 AM >

_____________________________

Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

Post #: 838

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/19/2007 1:28:23 AM

Stickbuilder

Posts: 5661
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
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Then why not drop a dime (or a quarter or is it thirty five cents now) where it might do some good? Give your DVP a call (his phone number is in his monthly column in MA) or even call the Executive Director, or send him an e-mail, voicing your displeasure? All of the DVP's come up for election occasionally, and if enough members have a problem with the handling of this situation, then they will probably listen. I seriously doubt that if the four of you will make them pay much attention though. Most of the rank and file with whom I have talked, feel that there was more to the situation than what Steve related. Most who have any knowledge concerning what happened, feel that Jim was justified in his actions. I suppose that you can add my name to that list as well.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to combatpigg)

Post #: 839

RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA - 9/19/2007 1:38:06 AM