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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pattern Flying >> argument
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argument - 3/22/2003 12:09:21 AM   
TOYMAKER



Posts: 771
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: WAXAHACHIE, TX, USA
Status: offline 		LIKE the header says on this link.

"HOW TO START AN ARGUMENT"

Just dont flop a Stall/Hammerhed turn .... you'll get zero'd everytime.

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 51

How to start an argument... - 3/22/2003 12:11:38 AM   
JimTrainor


 

Posts: 1308
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Flop? You mean fall out off axis?

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 52

flop - 3/22/2003 12:26:30 AM   
TOYMAKER



Posts: 771
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: WAXAHACHIE, TX, USA
Status: offline 		exactly...

generaly the plane will pitch forward or back on a flop instead of yawing left or right... did I say that right? I think so.

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 53

How to start an argument... - 3/22/2003 4:32:19 AM   
Rossan


 

Posts: 87
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Altrincham, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Luke,

The point of the thread wasn't to argue about the name of a maneuver, but to point out a fairly common mis-conception about the principle of what constituted a stall.

From your reply I suspect you share this misconception. An aircraft does not "Lose all lift" when it stalls. t reaches a point where increasing angle of attack reduces the lift it produces, but it doesn't just stop lifting. Many 3D style maneuvers take advantage of this fact. Ia a Harrier for example, the aircraft is stalled, but a combination of the little lift the wing still produces and the upward vector from the thrust allows the aircraft to keep flying at a high angle of attack.

_____________________________

I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here!!

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 54

This should settle it... - 3/22/2003 7:57:55 AM   
Ben Diss


 

Posts: 426
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Chestnut Ridge, NY, USA
Status: offline 		IAC OFFICIAL CONTEST RULES

Chapter 8 - Criteria for Judging Aerobatic Figures

Family 5 - Hammerheads

Hammerheads, also referred to as stall turns, are some of the most graceful figures in the FAI Aerobatic Catalog. In its most basic form, the figure begins when the aircraft leaves horizontal flight and flies a quarter loop to establish a vertical climb. At the top of vertical line, the aircraft pivots and establishes a vertical descent, with the figure ending as the aircraft is returned to horizontal flight.

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 55

How to start an argument... - 3/22/2003 3:11:51 PM   
robert


 

Posts: 2448
Joined: 3/2/2002
From: private, IRELAND
Status: offline 		Guy's, I really cannot stop laughing at this thread.

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 56

How to start an argument... - 3/24/2003 6:25:09 AM   
Rendegade



Posts: 886
Joined: 3/19/2003
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Robert: I'm glad that someone see the fun side of it.

Guys and girls don't get me wrong, I've been BBLing it for years, I've never been an internet warrior, I always read everything with a grain of salt and there's nothing I like more than a good (even if it is on whether dark toast is better than light toast) argument to while the day away.

I really don't care if we never get to the bottom if this, but hey, at least it's a popular thread

Toymaker? I take it when you mean a flop you mean, to stop the aircraft and then have it fall over? Ie it's airspeed is zero when it gets to the top? then yeah, you're right, it's not a zero airspeed maneuvre.

Don't forget that a snap roll is also a stalled maneuvre, but you're not travelling at zero airspeed, are you??

_____________________________

It's easy to fly, just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 57

How to start an argument... - 3/24/2003 4:13:30 PM   
Rossan


 

Posts: 87
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Altrincham, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		No, you're not at zero airspeed, but you're not at zero "G" either. Stall speed varies as the square-root of Load Factor ("G" , so by subjecting the aircraft to a vertical acceleration, you increase load factor and therefore stall speed. This is know as an accelerated stall, and is how auto rotative figures like snaps are achieved.

Confused yet?

(Edited because I don`t know a square from a root...only Aussies will get that one: )

< Message edited by Rossan -- Mar 25 2003 6:15AM >

_____________________________

I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here!!

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 58

How to start an argument... - 3/25/2003 5:54:27 AM   
Rendegade



Posts: 886
Joined: 3/19/2003
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		No no not at all.

I'm aware of high speed accelerative stalls.

I was simply trying to point out that not all stalls occur at low airspeed.

Are we getting off topic now? Do we care?

Is it time for a tangential shift??

_____________________________

It's easy to fly, just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 59

How to start an argument... - 3/25/2003 2:26:40 PM   
Rossan


 

Posts: 87
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Altrincham, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		No, not off topic. In fact re-enforcing the point I was making. You don`t have to be at slow speed to stall, neither do you have to be stalled just because you`re at slow speed.

Still, we`ve done this one to death... Next I think I`ll risk stoning as a heretic and suggest that benouli is an inacurate explanation of lift...GASP!

_____________________________

I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here!!

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 60

How to start an argument... - 3/25/2003 10:45:16 PM   
Ben Diss


 

Posts: 426
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Chestnut Ridge, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Bernouli is only part of the story. Read this:

[URL=http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/]See How It Flies[/URL]

-Ben

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 61

How to start an argument... - 3/26/2003 5:42:59 AM   
Rendegade



Posts: 886
Joined: 3/19/2003
From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Rossan, if you say that, out loud, I'll be right behind you.

Bernoulli doesn't really gel with me...

_____________________________

It's easy to fly, just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

(in reply to Rossan)
       Post #: 62

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