RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (Full Version)

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MikeGreenshields -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 4:55:28 AM)

The radio has a year warranty. If you think the battery is defective send it back and we'll replace it.

I'm just saying that the radio will work down to 9.0V safely and that the pack at 9.6V is safe to use. And unlike lipo's or some of the other newer batteries, nicd batteries are not going to hold voltage much above nominal voltage in storage for very long.








djlyon -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 5:11:43 AM)

Not saying the battery is defective, just different and at this point disconcerting until I've tested capacity when it's settled at 9.6 on the shelf. You well note that I altered my previous post to point out that the low voltage alarm is set at 9.5 volts on the RDS8000. When I test for capacity I take the voltage of the individual cells down to 1 volt. I will also check to see when the 9.6 drops to 9.5 under load, 300 milliamps.



gaRCfield -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 5:21:18 AM)

How do you get spoilerons to work properly on this radio? I get flaperons to work fine, but the spoileron function doesn't make the ailerons move with the 3 position toggle switch, causes the throttle cut to stop working, and makes the trainer switch work as a throttle cut. I understand that if flaperons are on, spoilerons are off, and vice-versa.

Also my battery alarm comes on way before the radio hits 9.0 volts, which I thought was odd. Is there a way to change that?



bigedmustafa -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 6:00:07 AM)

My RDS8000 transmitter batteries (I also have two) seem to self-discharge a bit more quickly than the tx batteries that came with my Futaba radios. The only knock I've read about Airtronics here on the RCU forums was that some folks said Sanwa batteries weren't as good as other OEM packs. The Sanwa packs that came with my RDS8000 seem to hold a peak charge OK for a day or so, but if you haven't charged the transmitter for three days or so, the voltage will have dropped down to a few tenths of a volt above nominal.

Having used my radios for a bit, they seem to charge and discharge the same as my Futaba tx packs do. The voltage rating is as high after a full charge, both brands seem to top out around 11.1 or 11.2 volts. The Futaba tx batteries (according to my 7C anyway) will operate from around 10.7v to 10.0v or 9.9v during an hour or two of flying after being topped up. The Sanwa tx batteries drop quickly down into the 10.3 or 10.2 volt range and operate closer to 9.8 to 9.6v after an hour or two of flying.

Do the Sanwa batteries not hold a charge as well, or is the voltmeter reading built into my Futaba 7C simply a bit "optimistic?" The voltage behavior of the Sanwa packs in my RDS8000s actually seem more "normal" for NiCd batteries to me.

At the end of the day, I don't really know that it matters. The RDS8000 operates perfectly fine at full range with the voltage indicated in the 9.6 volt range. My flight times aren't affected and I don't have to recharge my Airtronics radios any more often than my Futabas.

With other radio systems, I know pilots who get nervous if their 9.6v tx battery reads 9.6v. With the Airtronics RDS8000, you don't appear to need any extra voltage for a solid and reliable link. I believe this is more of a difference in how the different brands of transmitters function than any indication of an inherent problem with Sanwa transmitter packs.

I'd be more concerned if I owned a transmitter that came with a 9.6v tx battery but wasn't safe to fly when the battery was at 9.6v. As a Futaba flyer for the last several years, I'm comfortable with the tx battery performance of RDS8000 radios and I believe that they probably provide a more accurate rating of tx battery voltage than my Futaba 7CAF does.



MikeGreenshields -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 6:31:02 AM)

The general idea behind the voltage warning is that if the battery has hit 9.4 or so, it's going to "dump". The Discharge curve gets really steep right at the end.

So, better safe than sorry.

Anyway my point about the 9.0V is that if the battery does start to dump, you have plenty of warning because even at 9.0V the radio is working. It's making an annoying beeping noise, but it's working, thus don't panic. Just land safely as time/space on the runway permits.

If you're getting a short run time before the alarm comes on, then maybe the battery is bad. If it gets to 9.7 or 9.6 and then sits there for an hour (which is kinda' what the discharge curve looks like) then you're fine.

You might just try charging the night before, which is what we always recommend. Then fly sometime that day until you hear the beeping noise. Or, if you're all flown out and the battery still hasn't hit 9.4 then I think it's ok.

If I drew the curve for these batteries and perhaps some others I think what you'd find is that these batteries have a slightly lower average voltage but they stay well above the point when the battery warning goes off and provide a proper amount of run time. And since the radio will run at 9.0V, that means that you still have a big safety margin.

Does that make sense?

Mike



metalmetal67 -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 11:11:38 AM)

On my RD8000 the stock battery life was terrible 4 or 5 flights the most before reaching 9.7v. I have since switched to a 2200 mah nimh pack which solved all of my radio voltage issues. Upon receiving my RDS I instantly swapped out the original battery for the 2200mah nimh pack and I must say the RDS radio sips voltage compared to my RD. With my RDS I can fly for 2 weekends 2-3 flights each time and not have to charge the radio. In fact I have never seen voltage in the 9's with this set-up.



vortex00 -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 12:40:02 PM)

HERE'S a DEAL ON RDS8000..... $110 WITH 1 RECEIVER! WWW.BOBSHOBBYCENTER.COM

PASS THE WORD!

ENJOY



mrbigg -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 2:55:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

How do you get spoilerons to work properly on this radio? I get flaperons to work fine, but the spoileron function doesn't make the ailerons move with the 3 position toggle switch, causes the throttle cut to stop working, and makes the trainer switch work as a throttle cut. I understand that if flaperons are on, spoilerons are off, and vice-versa.

Also my battery alarm comes on way before the radio hits 9.0 volts, which I thought was odd. Is there a way to change that?

I don't understand why the deal about the throttle/trainer switch. Never had that problem. Are you running dual aileron servos? What ports are they plugged into the reciever? Both channels have to be functioning the same way. Either both normal or reversed. In the "etc" menu, FLAPE needs to be ACT and SPOIR needs to be INH. Double check and let me know whats going on when you hit the switch.




gaRCfield -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 3:49:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbigg

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

How do you get spoilerons to work properly on this radio? I get flaperons to work fine, but the spoileron function doesn't make the ailerons move with the 3 position toggle switch, causes the throttle cut to stop working, and makes the trainer switch work as a throttle cut. I understand that if flaperons are on, spoilerons are off, and vice-versa.

Also my battery alarm comes on way before the radio hits 9.0 volts, which I thought was odd. Is there a way to change that?

I don't understand why the deal about the throttle/trainer switch. Never had that problem. Are you running dual aileron servos? What ports are they plugged into the reciever? Both channels have to be functioning the same way. Either both normal or reversed. In the "etc" menu, FLAPE needs to be ACT and SPOIR needs to be INH. Double check and let me know whats going on when you hit the switch.

This is how my current setup is - left aileron in ch2, rt aileron in ch6, and flaperons turned on. Flaperons are working well. My question is about spoilerons though - when I turn on spoilerons, flaperons goes off, then the three way switch on the top right of the Tx does nothing, the throttle cut does nothing, and the trainer switch operates the throttle. In the directions it seems like spoilerons is meant for gliders, so I assumed that it wouldn't work for a powered plane because of this, hence changes with throttle buttons.





BelAirBob -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 4:58:07 PM)

Where does it say the low battery alarm is set for 9.5V? The manual I have says that when the "gas gauge" is below half and it states "9.2V", it is time to recharge. The JR radios I have go down to 8.8 V (1.1 V per cell) before the alarm goes off. I was flying my RDS down to 9.2V last week and no alarm. And if I remember, the "gas gauge" was at 3/4.

Djlyon, is your battery tester putting a load on the battery? If not, it does not mean much, just as red and green ranges don;t really mean a lot. NiCads (TM) lose about 1% a day. As Mike said, I would never fly without charging before. I do, however, keep all my batteries on trickle charge after a full charging so they are always ready to go.

Going back to my JR;s, I always used an Accu Cycle. They would drain the battery, showing how many mAh were left, along with how many minutes. Once the cells get down to 1.1 V each, it charges for 16 hours and then goes to trickle. The Airtronics TX has a diode or something so this can not be done without removing the battery. This was the basic Accu Cycle you can get from Tower and it did no peak charging. My Accu Cycle Elite will do all that, but not sure it is necessary or worth the extra money.

bob



mrbigg -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 7:31:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbigg

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

How do you get spoilerons to work properly on this radio? I get flaperons to work fine, but the spoileron function doesn't make the ailerons move with the 3 position toggle switch, causes the throttle cut to stop working, and makes the trainer switch work as a throttle cut. I understand that if flaperons are on, spoilerons are off, and vice-versa.

Also my battery alarm comes on way before the radio hits 9.0 volts, which I thought was odd. Is there a way to change that?

I don't understand why the deal about the throttle/trainer switch. Never had that problem. Are you running dual aileron servos? What ports are they plugged into the reciever? Both channels have to be functioning the same way. Either both normal or reversed. In the "etc" menu, FLAPE needs to be ACT and SPOIR needs to be INH. Double check and let me know whats going on when you hit the switch.

This is how my current setup is - left aileron in ch2, rt aileron in ch6, and flaperons turned on. Flaperons are working well. My question is about spoilerons though - when I turn on spoilerons, flaperons goes off, then the three way switch on the top right of the Tx does nothing, the throttle cut does nothing, and the trainer switch operates the throttle. In the directions it seems like spoilerons is meant for gliders, so I assumed that it wouldn't work for a powered plane because of this, hence changes with throttle buttons.




Didn't know that about the throttle buttons. Learn something new everyday.[:)] If your flaperons are working, as in the effect that both ailerons are going down, you are doing it right. The problem is that you can't have both spoilers and flaps. I've never been able to do both.
To set up spoilerons (assuming both ailerons drop when hitting the switch) First push the switch down (away from yourself). Do the ailerons drop when doing that? If so, remove the screws from the servos so that you can remove the servo arms. Leave the switch down, center the aileron by hand, hold it there while reattaching the servo arm. Do both sides. Now try the switch. Full down is neutral, middle is up, top is full up.



MikeGreenshields -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 8:27:31 PM)

When I'm using Ailerons also as Flaps And Spoilers, I simply use the flaperon, and then setup neutral on the 3 position flap switch in the middle. So then flipping the switch one way makes both ailerons droop (flaps) and flipping it the other way makes them both go up (spoilers) but of course they still wiggle when I move the aileron stick.

They're not variable or anything, it's just a 3 position switch, but it worked ok on the plane I had them on (kinda' a big high wing trainer that landed way better with some spoilers and in the air was a lot of fun with the ailerons both drooping...)

Not sure if this helps but I think it might be what you're trying to do and anyway, it worked for me.. If you need further help, you might call the 800 line on Monday and talk to Jack about it.

Mike



djlyon -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 11:07:24 PM)

Page 10 of the RDS8000 instruction book says the warning will go off when the battery voltage falls below 9.5 volts. If it's called a battery tester it puts on a load. Mine puts on 300milliamps. If it doesn't put on a load it's called a voltmeter.

Denis



Lowesinstaller -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/6/2008 11:48:36 PM)

Well.... I signed up on RCU just to get into this discussion. I purchased the RDS8000 with the two receivers from HobbyPeople and to tell you the truth, I am VERY unhappy with this radio. I wanted to jump on the 2.4 band wagon. I have lost two airplanes because of the radio loosing signal with the receiver. Even after properly range testing. Both were planes that I have used 72mhz radios in with no problems. I also get the occasional error message on screen "TH-Hi" (Yes, the throttle gimbal is set all the way down before turning the radio on)
I decided that I dont want this radio, nor could I trust it. I have been in an email battle with Hobby People because I want a refund (or store credit) so I can purchase another radio. They wont give me store credit. (This is before the 30 day since I received it) They want to repair it and wont take it back because it it "Used". Let me ask anyone here, Would you trust this radio again? After loosing two planes and hundreds of dollars? I think not!!!!!!! Anyone have any suggestions on what to do???



RJConnet -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 12:04:13 AM)

I hate to say it but I think Sanwa is buying their Tx batteries from the lowest bidder. I have had by RDS 8000 for a few months now and have noticed a few anomalies. I charged it three weeks ago and got in one short flight before the wind got too strong. This afternoon after reading a few of the comments in this thread I went out and set my cycler for a 200 mA load and hit the start button, the voltage immediately dropped to two volts or so and alarmed. Battery was dead flat, I have one Tx with a six year old NiCD in it that would still have had 2 or 300 mAH left in it in the same situation. [:o][:o]...........RJ

Ooops, sorry guys, I just realized that the battery is probably diode protected, kind of surprised me as none of my Airtronics Tx (Vanguard, Quaser, and Infinity) have the diode.

[8D][8D]..........RJ



MikeGreenshields -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 12:13:16 AM)

Lowesinstaller: You can pm me directly or email me if you feel you need further help.

Obviously if the radio is having a problem it needs to be returned either way. You certainly can't fly with it if it is not working properly.

Mike Greenshields
Global/Airtronics



Shubova -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 3:42:42 AM)

Mike Greenshields
What is the range of the RDS8000?
Some say as far as the eye can see...for a normal person that is a little less than a 1/2 mile.
Thanks,
Shubova
[8D]



mrbigg -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 3:49:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeGreenshields

When I'm using Ailerons also as Flaps And Spoilers, I simply use the flaperon, and then setup neutral on the 3 position flap switch in the middle. So then flipping the switch one way makes both ailerons droop (flaps) and flipping it the other way makes them both go up (spoilers) but of course they still wiggle when I move the aileron stick.

They're not variable or anything, it's just a 3 position switch, but it worked ok on the plane I had them on (kinda' a big high wing trainer that landed way better with some spoilers and in the air was a lot of fun with the ailerons both drooping...)

Not sure if this helps but I think it might be what you're trying to do and anyway, it worked for me.. If you need further help, you might call the 800 line on Monday and talk to Jack about it.

Mike

Duh![sm=bananahead.gif] Never thought about using the middle as neutral so that spoilerons and flaps could both be used!



mrbigg -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 3:50:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowesinstaller

Well.... I signed up on RCU just to get into this discussion. I purchased the RDS8000 with the two receivers from HobbyPeople and to tell you the truth, I am VERY unhappy with this radio. I wanted to jump on the 2.4 band wagon. I have lost two airplanes because of the radio loosing signal with the receiver. Even after properly range testing. Both were planes that I have used 72mhz radios in with no problems. I also get the occasional error message on screen "TH-Hi" (Yes, the throttle gimbal is set all the way down before turning the radio on)
I decided that I dont want this radio, nor could I trust it. I have been in an email battle with Hobby People because I want a refund (or store credit) so I can purchase another radio. They wont give me store credit. (This is before the 30 day since I received it) They want to repair it and wont take it back because it it "Used". Let me ask anyone here, Would you trust this radio again? After loosing two planes and hundreds of dollars? I think not!!!!!!! Anyone have any suggestions on what to do???

Any pics of your crashed planes?



crazy8s -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 5:24:53 AM)

Shubova,

You have asked this question already 2 - 3 times on this and another thread and you have been told that the radios range is beyond the pilots ability to see the plane. Check the first 2 pages of this thread on Mike's reports of the range testing. This is a FULL RANGE radio. Unless you are planning to do some instrument flying with an onboard camera for visual I fail to see what you are concerned about. If someone has told you that this radio lacks range they are very mistaken.



crazy8s -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 5:49:37 AM)

Lowesinstaller,

I'm a little confused on why you would take a second plane up after you already lost one aircraft due to the transmitter "unbinding" with the receiver. To answer your question on what you should do, you should do what Mike said and send the radio in to be checked out along with the 2 receivers. If they find a problem with the radio that they haven't encountered before then it benefits all of us who already own the radio and future buyers of the radio when a problem is identified and rectified. You have a warrenty so use it. They'll probably just send you a new radio anyway. Btw, there have been very few problems reported with this radio so yes, I would trust the radio if they sent a new one. Passing a ground range check isn't a 100% gaurantee that something won't go wrong in the air. Signals to the receiver can be blocked once in the air during certain orientations of the plane due to faulty installation of the antennas <they must be 90 degrees from each other> or using carbon fiber fuselages or having carbon fiber inside of the fuselage. Let us know how you make out with this situation.



RCAddiction -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 6:11:50 AM)

A gentleman showed up at our local field a few weeks ago with a 43cc gas engine 80" plane ready to fly. His first larger plane. The club asked me to look it over for him and do a pre-flight inspection. Good gosh....the receiver wasn't installed properly. The receiver was resting (not even fastened down!) on the edge of the servo tray, with the twin 2.4 antennas literally hanging in the air, parallel to each other, aimed toward the nose of the plane. There were a dozen other issues I discovered as a result of careless, sloppy assembly, including undersized servos, undersized battery pack, uninstalled linkages, etc, etc.

My point is that his plane would have crashed very quickly, having had nothing to do with the 2.4 radio he used but as a result of how it was improperly installed. 2.4 is different and we need to respect those differences from 72mHz.

As others have requested, I'd sure like to have seen photos of LowestInstaller's original installation, along with post-crash photos.

Oh....that particular local pilot crashed 4 additional planes in the subsequent 2 weeks. All assembly and pilot error issues.



crazy8s -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 8:01:20 AM)

RCAddiction,

It sounds like you guys need to ban that guy from your field forever for the safety of everyone!!!! I agree with you 100% on the situation with bad receiver installations on 2.4. I think it will probably take another year or two for the vast majority of our flyers to finally realize that 2.4 IS different from what we got very used to with 72mHz. I've actually seen guys trying to make the arguement that the placement of the antennas at 90 degrees from each other wasn't really necessary because "they" didn't bother doing it and haven't "had a problem" yet. With a system that can become "blinded" by a solid object <like a large gas ignition engine> the antenna diversity is critical.

It would have been interesting to have had a little more detail from LowesInstaller like what kind of airplanes he had the radio system in and if after the crashes he tried to see if the system worked on the bench or did the receivers really loose the bind with the transmitter?



Lowesinstaller -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 3:29:19 PM)

Crazy8s,
I didn't take any pictures. The one plane is a total loss, the other I am in the process of repairing. As I told Mike, I am not mad about the radio. I am mad about the way HobbyPeople are handling it. We all know that if you want to be in this hobby you have to expect good days and bad days. I didn't even think to take pictures. This is my first time using a 2.4 radio. Could it be installation issues? Anything is possible... It is very difficult to have proper antenna placement in a 40-60 size plane. I used pieces of fuel line to hold the two antenna leads at the correct attitude. Again... Both planes flew with 72mhz radios with no issues.



Shubova -> RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz* (9/7/2008 4:22:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazy8s

Shubova,

You have asked this question already 2 - 3 times on this and another thread and you have been told that the radios range is beyond the pilots ability to see the plane. Check the first 2 pages of this thread on Mike's reports of the range testing. This is a FULL RANGE radio. Unless you are planning to do some instrument flying with an onboard camera for visual I fail to see what you are concerned about. If someone has told you that this radio lacks range they are very mistaken.


crazy8s
I fail to see the problem with asking questions. Untile I get a definitive answer from some who I know isn’t just spewing manure, I will not stop asking. A lot of people give comments and opinions with no basis at all. I asked Mike Greenshields Product Manager (not you) a question and I was hoping to get more technical answer then “It has unlimited range”. How do you know, do you have any solid technical data to support your statement? Have you seen any technical reports, or studies that Airtronics has done on the subject? Do you have a degree in communions or electronics? I understand that this technology was developed for and used by the Army for over 25 years ago. Have you read the results of there R&D?
I appreciate any comments but I am not a lemming or an idiot. Just because someone says it so doesn’t mean it’s true. Everything has its limitations. I have fallowed the instruction to a “T” and I am confident that I will not have any problems.
I was an aerospace engineer for 30 years and I have heard every BS line there is. Most of it was just that BS. Again as I said before people say this or that so I investigate and I will not stop asking questions until I know that I know.
And as they say “You can take that to the bank”, my friend.
Last if you don’t like my questions you don’t have to read them!
Thanks,
Shubova
[8D]



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