RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Crash & Rebuild >> RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash
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RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/1/2008 3:02:37 PM   
Nathan King



Posts: 1468
Joined: 5/29/2007
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Yep, exceeding critical AOA is the ONLY (I can't stress "only" enough) thing that will cause an airplane to stall. A stall can happen at any speed or attitude. I was an aviation major in college, so I have a little knowledge about these things.

IMHO, the biggest shortfall in most model pilots is lack of adequate aerodynamics knowledge.

Here's something I do with all my students to drive this home. I pick up their model and point it down about 50 degrees. I then proceed to ask them if the airplane is stalling. Of course, they immediately say "no." The real answer is that you don't know (haven't been given enough information), but it gets their brains working.

< Message edited by Nathan King -- 5/1/2008 3:08:30 PM >


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Nate,
WACO Brotherhood #99

(in reply to gboulton)
       Post #: 51

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/1/2008 3:57:16 PM   
divergoff


 

Posts: 181
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Finksburg, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I think what most people are confused about it Airspeed vs. Ground Speed. In R/C we only see GS. So while it is true that at a given AIRspeed lift will be the same for any GROUNDspeed, when we fly RC we only really see that second part. Most of us don't have a pitot static system on our RC planes to see airspeed. Hence we land and takeoff into the wind.

(in reply to Nathan King)
       Post #: 52

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/1/2008 4:12:49 PM   
gboulton



Posts: 1862
Joined: 5/28/2005
From: La Vergne, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nathan King
IMHO, the biggest shortfall in most ... pilots is lack of adequate aerodynamics knowledge.


There, fixed that for ya. *heh*

quote:


Here's something I do with all my students to drive this home. I pick up their model and point it down about 50 degrees. I then proceed to ask them if the airplane is stalling. Of course, they immediately say "no." The real answer is that you don't know (haven't been given enough information), but it gets their brains working.


I like that...hope you don't mind if I steal that for my bag of tricks.

I'm known for the following similar anecdote:

When my daughter begins dating (which will, I fear, happen sooner than I realize) and brings home potential suitors, I will take them up in an airplane.

Once we've established a nice, level cruise, I'm going to ask them to point at the control that will make the airplane climb.

Shrug helplessly, and you'll be prohibited from ever speaking to my daughter again.
Reach for the yoke/stick, and you'll need to have her home by 8.
Reach for the throttle, and I'll give you the keys to my car, and all the condoms you want.


_____________________________

The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country. - Milton Friedman

(in reply to Nathan King)
       Post #: 53

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/1/2008 4:22:02 PM   
Nathan King



Posts: 1468
Joined: 5/29/2007
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gboulton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nathan King
IMHO, the biggest shortfall in most ... pilots is lack of adequate aerodynamics knowledge.


There, fixed that for ya. *heh*

quote:


Here's something I do with all my students to drive this home. I pick up their model and point it down about 50 degrees. I then proceed to ask them if the airplane is stalling. Of course, they immediately say "no." The real answer is that you don't know (haven't been given enough information), but it gets their brains working.


I like that...hope you don't mind if I steal that for my bag of tricks.

I'm known for the following similar anecdote:

When my daughter begins dating (which will, I fear, happen sooner than I realize) and brings home potential suitors, I will take them up in an airplane.

Once we've established a nice, level cruise, I'm going to ask them to point at the control that will make the airplane climb.

Shrug helplessly, and you'll be prohibited from ever speaking to my daughter again.
Reach for the yoke/stick, and you'll need to have her home by 8.
Reach for the throttle, and I'll give you the keys to my car, and all the condoms you want.



LOL! I like that story. Does your daughter know about this?

I don't mind. Add it to your bag-o-tricks if you like. Yes, unfortunately some full scale pilots have their share of knowledge gaps as well.


_____________________________

Nate,
WACO Brotherhood #99

(in reply to gboulton)
       Post #: 54

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/1/2008 5:59:08 PM   
gboulton



Posts: 1862
Joined: 5/28/2005
From: La Vergne, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nathan King
LOL! I like that story. Does your daughter know about this?


She does, indeed. In fact, her only 'argument' with the plan is that SHE should get to take them up. I've yet to explain to her that HER buying "all the condoms they'll need" probably won't have quite the same effect as me doing it. *heh*


_____________________________

The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country. - Milton Friedman

(in reply to Nathan King)
       Post #: 55

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/9/2008 10:10:55 AM   
fastinated


 

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: castalia, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I can't believe I'm hearing this.. Wind doesn't affect lift???? Wind definately affects lift!!! It affects it by effectivly altering the planes speed through the air.. Wind by nature is never a constant force. Just like flying in a jumbo.. You get buffeted in bad winds. Know why?? You are changing the airspeed over the wing changing lift characteristics.. I know at my field the wind changes directions.. So he could have gotten into a sudden down wind with his plane. Air speed is measured as speed through the air. On planes theres a static pressure and a pitot tube to measure "airspeed" and the GPS to measure ground speed. So I completely disagree with wind not affecting lift. Since it's the speed of air across the lift mechanism. Wether that be the wing or wing/fuse is how a plane flies. So if you are going 20mph and are heading into 10mph winds your airspeed is effectively 30mph. now take that 10mph and change it into a down wind situation and you are now moving 10mph instead of 20mph. That's w/o engine interference such as a glider so no confusion

Funny...it hasn't seemed to any of the times I've ever been in one, or on the ground flying one. At 2100 rpm the DA-20 does 90 kts when trimmed to 2 notches above center. it does that in a 10 kt headwind, still conditions, a 5 kt cross wind, or a 20 kt tail wind.

See you answered it with powered flight. So if you are flying into the wind and turn 180 and go with the wind you will notice a difference til you gain "airspeed again".

You maybe right in your arguement, but it's not a practical explanation here. I think you are dealing with constant winds, constant temp (density changes with temp and there are temp changes in the wind). But in wind you have variables. Such as gusts.. I'm done, b/c that was a rediculously over the top explanation of something way more complicated, but in the R/C world wind does affect flight. B/C the wind isn't constant.

(in reply to troposcuba)
       Post #: 56

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 5/16/2008 12:53:05 AM   
alfredbmor



Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: El Paso, TX, USA
Status: online 		I live in a very windy area and I know for self experience how winds affects my planes, but you all can easily probe it with out risking any of your planes.
Do any of you have a SIM?
You can easily know how WIND affects the lift, in my G2 and now in my G4 you are able to adjust the speed of the wind (The airspeed is given with the aircraft)
Adjust it to a 50 mph or so and then try to fly any airplane to a steady airspeed of 60 mph.
When you fly against the wind, the airplane barely will move but elevator will be very effective and can make the plane go up and down fast and easy, which means to me that wind provides lift.
Now turn the airplane and fly it in the same path of the wind (Tail wind) at 50 mph or so and check what happens with your elevator, is it effective?
Of course not.
OK. I am a lawyer but I attended my best at HS and physics are awesome.
I hope you can do a try with your SIM.
I personally feel better grounded when winds are 20 mph or more.
Interesting thread isn't it?


< Message edited by alfredbmor -- 5/16/2008 1:43:21 AM >

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       Post #: 57

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