My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash

My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash
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My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/20/2007 6:20:58 AM

Tjetfire94

Posts: 43
Joined: 2/19/2007
From: Kaneohe, HI, USA
Status: offline

Hi,
My airplane which is a Lanier Giant Extra 330L crashed just earlier this sunday. I was debating weather to fly or not and then a calm wind pocket came. There was a big ban of rain after that pocket of blue sky. The winds went down to a mere 10-15 knot winds. This is normal too, but today it had about 15-20...25 knots of wind maybe, i might be wrong but ya. I took off nice and did a few circuts. I was not exactly confident with it because it was only the 6th flight and the engine wasnt broken in yet. The engine I had was a DA 50, a very beautiful engine with smoke pump and mufflers too. I never got to use the smoke yet and the crank shaft was still a little stiff. I got confident enough to do a few rolls and loops. Then i did a Rolling circle for about 75% of a circle at high altitueds about 200 feet to 300 feet. It was pretty high so I was ready for it if or when the engine would quit on me. I finished going upwind and did a cuban 8. Then I turned to go down the runway and started to turn. I was about at 80 degrees of banking and all of a sudden the plane went into a diving spiral. I tried to pull out of it but nothing happened. I couldnt hear the engine because a jet was taxiing. It dropped from about 50 ft high and just went down. I had a PCM reciever on it with a failsafe on it but the failsafe just didnt work. it had almost full diflection on it and it went down hard. I went over with a friend running to beat the rain and get it packed up. It landed about 200-300 feet away and into pavement. My dad came out with the truck and helped us. The reciver looked in tact but I am still going to send it in to get it checked out. The cowel was destroyed and the engine looked bad. But My dad said the crank shaft still turned so I assumed damage wasnt too great to the engine. The spinner shattered and the only part still in tact was the tail. Both wings came out and ripped the fuselage apart. I had an alunimum wing spar which is very durable be snapped where it links to the left wing. I really hope that the engine is ok and the servos and reciever are repairable. The servos didnt take much damage seeing that at least 8 of them looked undamaged. One of the alunimum control horns flew off of one of the aileron servos. I will try to post pictures of the aftermath of it but if I cant Email me and I can send them to you.

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_____________________________

Aloha from TJ Goodin,
Paradise RC Flyers,

Post #: 1

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/20/2007 7:26:25 AM

alan0899

Posts: 2006
Joined: 4/17/2006
From: Cundletown, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

G'day TJ,
Sounds like you may have had a battery problem, or at least a power supply problem.
Beacause you stated your failsafe did not work, it won't work without power to the RX.
What batteries, switch/switches, etc. & radio did you have in your Extra.

_____________________________

Good Flyin Mate. Keep Thyne Airspeed up, lest the ground arise & smite thee, Allan.

(in reply to Tjetfire94)

Post #: 2

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/20/2007 8:10:38 AM

Tjetfire94

Posts: 43
Joined: 2/19/2007
From: Kaneohe, HI, USA
Status: offline

Hi Allan,
I have the 4200 amp or something in there and after the crash it was still connected.
The switches I had were the Heavy duty kind of switches.
I had a PCM Receiver that was a Futaba 7 channel. I used the Futaba 7Cap/ 7channel radio, Next month my dad was talking about getting the SPX radios or spectrum
But I really dont know what happened. It could have been the chatter from the Marine Core base we fly at because a guy with a trainer went down before because fire trucks did practice and had high band PAs going up and spikeing at different channels.

_____________________________

Aloha from TJ Goodin,
Paradise RC Flyers,

(in reply to alan0899)

Post #: 3

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 6:12:13 AM

Mr67Stang

Posts: 2094
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: , NC, USA
Status: offline

A plane like this, when the wing is stalled and the engine is flamed out, will go into a spin and spiral down. Holding the elevator will only agravate the spin, and yes it will seem as though the plane is not responding to inputs. What is needed to recover is enough altitude to neutralize the contols, apply opposite rudder to negate the spin then gently flair out. That being said I seriously doubt you are flying a plane of this caliber without already knowing this. So, did you hook all the surviving electronics up and test them post crash?

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He who dies with the most toys wins!

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Post #: 4

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 11:40:55 AM

bkdavy

Posts: 1383
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: FrederickMD, USA
Status: online

The way you describe the winds that day, it sounds like you got hit with a tail wind gust. I've seen this happen on a couple occassions. It looks like a radio hit because you expect you have plenty of airspeed. When the tail wind gust hits, the air speed of the plane suddenly drops, inducing the spin. The first instinct to pull up elevator just makes it worse of course.

Good luck with the repairs/replacement.

Brad

(in reply to Mr67Stang)

Post #: 5

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 12:04:34 PM

jetmech05

Posts: 1405
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

here we go again!!!!! wind has no effect on lift.
You either had a radio hit, possible since you're flying near Kaneohe Bay. ECM works on a broad range.
Or you got too slow with 80 deg of bank and tip stalled it, a tip stall does indeed send it sprialing in. the fail safe won't do anything and just elevator by itself doesn't make a difference.

(in reply to bkdavy)

Post #: 6

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 12:25:14 PM

craigpuckett

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/16/2007
From: Rison, AR, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jetmech05

here we go again!!!!! wind has no effect on lift.

If so, why do carriers turn into the wind for launch and recovery ??

If you have a 25mph tail wind and you are going 25mph what would the air going over the top of the wing be doing (not lifting I bet)

(in reply to jetmech05)

Post #: 7

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 3:07:12 PM

gboulton

Posts: 1862
Joined: 5/28/2005
From: La Vergne, TN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: craigpuckett
If so, why do carriers turn into the wind for launch and recovery ??

Do you really want to know, or are you simply "proving your point"?

(which is incorrect btw...wind has no effect on lift)

quote:

If you have a 25mph tail wind and you are going 25mph what would the air going over the top of the wing be doing (not lifting I bet)

Depends. Is the 25mph I'm traveling my ground speed or air speed?

If it's a ground speed, then you're right...I'm falling out of the sky because my airspeed is 0.
If it's an airspeed, then my wings are providing whatever lift they provide at 25mph...and don't even know there's wind anywhere around.

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The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country. - Milton Friedman

(in reply to craigpuckett)

Post #: 8

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 3:23:25 PM

waydown2low

Posts: 93
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Guymon, OK, USA
Status: offline

Jetfire, that particular radio I have seen several problems with. When put in a plane with electronic ignition I have seen them go crazy even when a long distance was put between the ignition parts and receiver parts. The plane would start deflecting all surfaces in full deflection, and when my JR system was put in the plane there was no problem. I don't know if it is just a problem with my friends particular radio or a ongoing problem with that model. He just ordered a new 9c Futaba to cure the problem. Be sure you do a very good range check with the motor running to make sure your not getting interference.

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If you can't see it, don't hand me the controlls!! :)

(in reply to Tjetfire94)

Post #: 9

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 5:22:54 PM

aerowoof

Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: pembroke, NH, USA
Status: offline

was the nose pointed down during the spin or was it almost level with the horizin?if it was almost level you were probably in a flat spin and the only way out os full power and full down to get air moving again,with no engine .all you can do is try full down and wait all other controls will have no effedt until air gets moving over them

(in reply to waydown2low)

Post #: 10

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 6:45:27 PM

jetmech05

Posts: 1405
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

if you have a 25 mph tail wind and the aircrafts airspeed is 25 mph you're going 25 mph..however ground speed will be something more. turn into the wind you are still going 25 mph airspeed ground speed will be less...
look at it this way, in the pattern, down wind leg, no wind...suddenly there is a 10 mph gust the airplane didnt climb, then when it stopped the airplane didn't descend.
People have the tendency to confuse airspeed with ground speed.wind has no effect on lift or airspeed only ground speed.
A carrier turns into the wind to begin to get air flow over the wings..once airborne no effect

(in reply to aerowoof)

Post #: 11

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 7:54:03 PM

vmsguy

Posts: 466
Joined: 4/4/2007
From: Woodville, WI, USA
Status: offline

You mentioned it was your 6th flight with this bird. And that you weren't entirely comfortable..

Why were you uncomfortable? Had the bird been exhibiting quirky behavior on previous flights? I'm just theorizing, if the bird had radio interference problems on previous flights, that could lead to eratic behavior while you flew it. You didn't notice these things, or chalked them up to engine wierdness, or some other thing. But because the wind was calmer, or the phase of the moon, or just dumb luck, you got away with it. This time however, it came back to bite you...

Just a thought.

Good luck fixing or replacing. Hope the engine's good. But if I may suggest.. Leave off the smoke and other goodies until the bird/engine are thoroughly broke in, and you're comfortable flying it....

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“It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill." - Wilbur Wright

(in reply to Tjetfire94)

Post #: 12

RE: My Lanier Giant Extra 330 crash - 8/21/2007 11:33:15 PM

Mr67Stang

Posts: 2094
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: , NC, USA
Status: offline

"Wind has no effect on lift."

I am not an aeronautical engineer or have any formal education in aerodynamics. However I do know what I have personally experienced. I challenge any of you to take the main wing from any of your planes out side on a windy day and hold it facing the head wind. Slightly increace the angle of attack and tell me it does not try to rise or decrease the angle of attack and ot does not drop, all this while standing in place. I am not trying to argue that wind does effect lift but my personal experience makes me think it does.

As stated by jetmech If I fly into a 25 mph headwind I can reduce my ground speed without stalling. Lets say my plane's stall speed is 30 mph IAS, At 29 mph it stalls and falls. If I am flying into the 25 mph head wind and the plane is travelling at 5 mph ground speed (lets just say at 10 ft AGL). I have 30 mph IAS. Then I turn 180 degrees without adjusting power and have a 25 mph tail wind... What is going to happen (we know this one) but why? if indeed wind has no effect on lift.

IMPORTAINT: I am not trying to be argumentative... I just want to understand.

_____________________________

He who dies with the most toys wins!

(in reply to jetmech05)