What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ?  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> Turbine Clinic >> JetCat Turbine Direct Support >> What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ?
Page: [1] 2   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/20/2007 1:18:36 PM   
cgroen



Posts: 92
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Hedensted, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Hello,

I'm about to take delivery of 3 Jetcat turbines, two P80 and one P160SE (titan), all with Kero start option.

What is the concensus regarding the ECU battery when running kero start on these engines ?
I see comments about NiMH and/Or LiPo, what is _the best_ battery to use for this application ??

Regards,
Carsten Groen

_____________________________

Regards,
Carsten Groen
       Post #: 1

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/21/2007 6:03:30 PM   
ColinW


 

Posts: 47
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: TroonAyrshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I use a 4.1 NIMH - it is fine, if a little weighty, but can be useful if you need nose weight. Considering LIPOs in the future as my jet is a bit heavy, but haven't tried them yet.

(in reply to cgroen)
       Post #: 2

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/21/2007 6:04:38 PM   
ColinW


 

Posts: 47
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: TroonAyrshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I use a 4.1 NIMH - it is fine, if a little weighty, but can be useful if you need nose weight. Considering LIPOs in the future as my jet is a bit heavy, but haven't tried them yet. JetCat 160

(in reply to cgroen)
       Post #: 3

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/21/2007 6:10:24 PM   
cgroen



Posts: 92
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Hedensted, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Thanks Colin,

I see mixed reports from people, I would think that a decent LiPo (f.ex Hyperion 2S 3300 or 3800) should do the trick, but some say that LiPo is only suitable up to the P70/P80 ? A hyperion 3800 wih 20C rating should be way over the needed power (I know it also has to do with internal resistance, but I would assume that it would be low on such a battery)

Oh well, I'll see if I can get hold of some big NiMH (3800 or so) and then use 6 of them and see how it goes (these are my first turbines, so it's a little scary )

Regards,
Carsten

_____________________________

Regards,
Carsten Groen

(in reply to ColinW)
       Post #: 4

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/21/2007 8:41:01 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline 		Hi Carsten,

First let me thank you for your order! That is a big commitment for a first turbine customer. I would like to think that you have made the right choice. Now let's get to your question.

The issue of battery selection can be contentious. Many batteries can be made to work, and there is no "best" technology. But I will still try to answer your question with the JetCat USA perspective.

For sheer robustness, NiCADs are hard to beat. They are rugged, very mature and easy to charge, wither slow or fast. But recently, we have come to like the larger NiMH, in fact JetCat USA ships a 3800 mah NiMH as standard. This is a standard size and offers excellent capacity at reasonable weight. The cells are quite robust and can easily supply the high current needed for kerosene start on a P-160 or P-80. Also the NiMH are a bit more forgiving in the charge regime over say a LiPO. The only negative I can think for a NiMH is the possibility to false peak with some chargers, so you have to be watch the timing of the charge cycles (as you do with all batteries)

If you are set on the Lithium technology, JetCat USA really likes the Duralite LiMn cells. Again they are a bit more robust and can handle the current demands of a large kerosene start turbine.

Let me know if I can be of any further assistance and thanks again for your order!

Regards,



_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to cgroen)
       Post #: 5

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/21/2007 8:52:05 PM   
cgroen



Posts: 92
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Hedensted, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Hi Matt,

thank you very much for your answer !

I wonder what Composite-ARF is delivering with the P80's and the P160SE I bought, guess they get the "Box" directly from Jetcat anyway, so hopefully the 3800 ma/H is included with my turbines !?


I selected the Jetcat because of the many positive things I have read about your products, so I hope I have made a wise choice

Regards,
Carsten

_____________________________

Regards,
Carsten Groen

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 6

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/21/2007 9:18:42 PM   
georbeckha



Posts: 47
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Evans, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

in fact JetCat USA ships a 3800 mah NiMH as standard.



Matt,
Is this a recient change in JetCatUSA's policy? ALL of the turbines I have recieved from them has had the 1250Mah batteries (A P80, 2 P70's, A P60 and a Titan. A P70 and the Titan have the Kero Start Option) The Last P70 (The replacment for the one I destroyed) was only about a month ago.

George



< Message edited by georbeckha -- 8/21/2007 9:50:31 PM >

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 7

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/22/2007 4:31:17 AM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline 		Sorry George!

My mistake I was typing fast. The standard JetCat USA battery is the 1250 mah Nicad. If you want you can upgrade to either the NiMH or the LiMn. In either case there is a 25 dollar credit for deleting the NiCad.

Sorry for the confusion.

Regards,



_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to georbeckha)
       Post #: 8

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/22/2007 11:34:52 AM   
richbran



Posts: 91
Joined: 11/23/2003
From: Ederveen, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		The Std 1250 only suffice for about 3 succesful starts/flights, after that it is unwise to fly w/o recharging (no problem for fast charge with NiCad)
I have replaced them initially with NiMh, but these (2300 penlight size) proved to have an horrendous discharge rate when not in use, easily getting flat in two weeks.(Yes, disconnected from the ECU....)

The other problem I found was that NiMhs cannot stand peak loads as opposed to NC(starting costs LOTS of energy, I guess with kerostart even more...), the voltage dropped therefore awfully resulting a many false starts (in wintertime in Europe...)
Now I replaced them with more or less Standard Lipos 2C/2100. I did not test it, but a friend of mine claims 10 starts/flights on one charge. Voltage drops way less during starting as NiMh.
Drawbacks of Lipo should be known: At least 2-3 times more expensive as NC, dedicated charger with balancer needed, careful handling. Possibly gone in two-three years, carefully handled NC can get 7-8 years I have found out. I have about one hundred batteries of which I keep a good track record.

As You are a beginner and likely not to fly a lot in the beginning (or charge when Your adrenaline level has to be lowered between flights...), stick to the standard NC, a great battery. Later, and if You are looking to save every gram on your plane, Lipo would come as the best alternative.

_____________________________

Regards,
Richard

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 9

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/22/2007 11:42:06 AM   
cgroen



Posts: 92
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Hedensted, DENMARK
Status: offline 		You are absolutely right about the adrenaline

But, will the battery delivered with the turbines (1250 ma/H) work at all with kero start ??

Regards,
Carsten


_____________________________

Regards,
Carsten Groen

(in reply to richbran)
       Post #: 10

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/22/2007 12:23:42 PM   
richbran



Posts: 91
Joined: 11/23/2003
From: Ederveen, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Carsten,
I did not switch to kerostart yet, there are some new developments in the Jetcat kerostart area, am awaiting coming winter how experiences will be, next yr I might switch. I find the propane starts not too much of a hassle, although, because of winterproblems, I switched to starting from the refill bottle directly (outside the model), only don't keep the bottle upside down as with refilling, as one of my buddies found out with some interesting pyrotechnics!
Also refilling the onboard small container You loose a large puff of gas every time you disconnect. I use less refill bottles nowadays!

I did not hear anyone complain of not enough bat power when switching to kerostart. Jetcat would surely have You advised to upgrade batteries if that would be necessary, so go ahead, don't worry and start with the supplied NCs.
No extra cost. You soon will find out jetflying drains Your wallet big time anyhow! There are always (like with choppers) great must-havvit after market goodies for Your jetplane....


_____________________________

Regards,
Richard

(in reply to cgroen)
       Post #: 11

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/22/2007 12:40:21 PM   
cgroen



Posts: 92
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: Hedensted, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info !
I got the (false) impression that the kero start would not work at all with the standard battery delivered with the turbines !
If I don't find something easy, I'll just stick with those!

Yup, agree on the "empty" wallet ) A Eurosport and two Boomerangs (with turbines, retracts etc etc) can make deep hole

Hopefully the "new developments" will still be compatible with the 3 turbines I just bought

Regards,
Carsten

_____________________________

Regards,
Carsten Groen

(in reply to richbran)
       Post #: 12

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/23/2007 4:13:49 AM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cgroen

Thanks for the info !
I got the (false) impression that the kero start would not work at all with the standard battery delivered with the turbines !
If I don't find something easy, I'll just stick with those!

Yup, agree on the "empty" wallet ) A Eurosport and two Boomerangs (with turbines, retracts etc etc) can make deep hole

Hopefully the "new developments" will still be compatible with the 3 turbines I just bought

Regards,
Carsten



Hi Carsten,

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The stock 1250 mah NiCd battery will run your turbines fine. Those batteries will start and run a 60 pound thrust P-200 just fine!

When I read your original message I took it that you wanted to upgrade. Sorry if I misunderstood.

When we talk about upgrading batteries, we are normally looking for either less airborne weight or more capacity. The NiMH and the LiMn batteries both offer improvements over the NiCd. Bust rest assured the stock battery will work fine. In fact it is the best for field fast charging.

I will now get to your PM!

Regards,



_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to cgroen)
       Post #: 13

RE: What battery for P80 and P160 with kero start ? - 8/23/2007 8:12:30 AM   
SpiderJets



Posts: 893
Joined: 12/26/2001
From: .., BELGIUM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: richbran

Also refilling the onboard small container You loose a large puff of gas every time you disconnect. I use less refill bottles nowadays!




Richard,

keep the tubing extremely short between the last one-way valve and the gas bottle connector, it's a trick which worked very well for me ! In fact, on a lathe, you can turn a brass coned tube/connector which directly goes into your one way valve at one side, and into the (upside down) gas fill container at the other side. The one way valve will act as your "handle". Almost no frustrating puffs of gas when you disconnect !

Nicolas.

(in reply to richbran)