<Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
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<Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
hi fellas, mailedfist has decided to break the great HL down after 1.3 yr of fun ownership. Its too feebile, light, fast, weak, inaccurate for my likings anymore. before i share this build with you great people i want to say big ups to Perry S., Kabul & Swath and most of all Stern frm. Deutschland. you guys helped me a lot with ideas and i am about to share with you one month of dedicated work to this HL Tiger.
I had took a vacation and spent lots of time building it with a dremel, hand tools, sandpaper, and my precise ruler. much more to do but without further ado,
"Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build"
fully gutted for maximum usable interior space.
I had took a vacation and spent lots of time building it with a dremel, hand tools, sandpaper, and my precise ruler. much more to do but without further ado,
"Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build"
fully gutted for maximum usable interior space.
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
i choose to opt for a belly pan, its super strong and so thin that one can't even reconize it from a frontal view or a rear view. this will provide the bread for the so-called "sandwich effect i would like to give to the main chasis structure...in addition, 1 inch width flat aluminium plus 1/3/4 was used (for gearbox renforcements).
1/16 aluminum angle was used for suspension wall suports and it provides the Tiger with great strength for tying all pieces together.
ss bolts ordered in 3mm hex w/3mmwashers on belly and inside hull, they were tremendously hard to locate, therfore i had to order from England ( simply gorgeous quality...my fav. looking style ever)
1/16 aluminum angle was used for suspension wall suports and it provides the Tiger with great strength for tying all pieces together.
ss bolts ordered in 3mm hex w/3mmwashers on belly and inside hull, they were tremendously hard to locate, therfore i had to order from England ( simply gorgeous quality...my fav. looking style ever)
#3
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
looks grerat....wish I had that amount of time. Good to have an SS Hauptmann helping with the SS bolts. At least you know you have the right stuff.
#4
RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
Gorgeous Tiger Build!
Though these type of posts always make me wonder, do you guys have your own machine shops in your home? And are you permanently (1-2 years) storing your batteries in the tank? I was thinking of using some SPDT switches and diode to have a ON/Off/Recharge mode and have the recharge cable come out of one of the radio hatches. If you're completely enclosing the batteries, I assume you're doing something like this?
Though these type of posts always make me wonder, do you guys have your own machine shops in your home? And are you permanently (1-2 years) storing your batteries in the tank? I was thinking of using some SPDT switches and diode to have a ON/Off/Recharge mode and have the recharge cable come out of one of the radio hatches. If you're completely enclosing the batteries, I assume you're doing something like this?
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
no machine shops...(i wish though), rather this is entirely done with a 400xpr that i burnt out and had to replace with a 300series during this build. dremel is great because they said send it and will fix it> no charge. but i will admit that i ordered lots of metal and begun collecting parts for this up to 8-9 months in advance. -thanks for the comments guys.
1/8 inch aluminum transmission i will be able to replace worn, broken trans.bearings very quickly if they should break under load
1/8 inch aluminum transmission i will be able to replace worn, broken trans.bearings very quickly if they should break under load
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
here are the bearings set inside the trans. very snugly actually tapped w/rubber mallet. they are japanese industrial bearings over 1/4 inch thick and spin nicely...these are counter sunk into the 1/8 thick bearing support...then epoxyed (lightly) for good measure. for the inner hull, i cut out pieces to flow with the inner hull on the opposite side of the transmission. 1.6mm bolts with blue threadlocker keep this a bolt on/off trans. for maint.
uber strong, fin>
uber strong, fin>
#9
RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
I am just wondering how you got that piece of metal plate to such exact dimensions to fit perfectly on the hull? The lines look too perfect to be hacksawed by hand
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
suspension is the metal upgrade frm asiatam. great quality & detail and very tough...they supply counter sunk screws that i left out and replaced with 3mmX8mm buttonhead hex (still look very nice) and fill in the spigots well. the washers are very handy. heres a tip if you order this upgrade: place one of the supplied washers against the bolt on the inside of the hull, then take a second washer & place on the bolt BEFORE you put the brass spigot on, this will give you a 1mm push out so that the supplied spigots are the correct length and when the susp. arms are cranked down, you will experience no slipage. trust me, without this small mod, the arms will free themselves loose time &time again.
i am reposting a picture because it shows what i am talking about pic 4 look inside the spigot hole and you can faintly see one of the washers sunk inside.
& look at pic 2 shows overhead...left side with washers and right side not yet installed
i am reposting a picture because it shows what i am talking about pic 4 look inside the spigot hole and you can faintly see one of the washers sunk inside.
& look at pic 2 shows overhead...left side with washers and right side not yet installed
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
after suspension install i could see and feel the difference in the realism of the suspension...i would even go as far as saying that t*miy* has a nice torsion bar system that i have touched, felt, and watched move but this setup is very comparable.
added a brass sheet to the back to stiffen further. makes a difference! & filled edges with green putty.
added a brass sheet to the back to stiffen further. makes a difference! & filled edges with green putty.
#12
RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
Are you still using the weak HL torsion springs for the suspension? That thing is going to be heavy (a good thing) and they won't cut it, at least without reindexing their anchor point. Still anxious to see your gearbox mod.
Perry
Perry
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
Good Morning Everyone!.... Here is going to be a step by step walkthrough on the heart&soul of my tiger...& how to obtain more POWER, TORQUE, REALISM, SCALE SPEED!!...from a series of tiny modifications to a stock metal gearbox. This was very tedious and lots of barriers i had to overcome during this to make it a reliable & worthwhile modification. Please follow the same steps and i promise you will love your tiger 3* more than before. I also will say that before i begin to explain (in great detail) that if one step is left out (minus the option i shall mention at the end) you have a high %risk of ruining your hard work.
so sit back and enjoy the show!...
Materials Needed:
1 set of metal gearboxes... 10 C-style clamps(i think thats thier name?)... j.b. weld...
1 set of 3:1 reduction gears (nylon w/slipper clutch)... 2 SS-pins... 30-min epoxy...
PS- its nice if you have already upgraded to metal & have a spare useless set laying around!... dremel tool must Have!... white lithium grease...
package of mini-drill-bits... vise or anvil would be nice
2 nylon bushings...
Ok lets begin> i would recommemd doing the right metal gearbox first (because its easier to visualize) now take it completely apart...
first major step is : flipping all gears around on thier shafts...(start w/ the first shaft reduction) -you must put in a vise and tap it out lightly. repeat to all other gear reductions.
study the pics so you can visualize>>>
so sit back and enjoy the show!...
Materials Needed:
1 set of metal gearboxes... 10 C-style clamps(i think thats thier name?)... j.b. weld...
1 set of 3:1 reduction gears (nylon w/slipper clutch)... 2 SS-pins... 30-min epoxy...
PS- its nice if you have already upgraded to metal & have a spare useless set laying around!... dremel tool must Have!... white lithium grease...
package of mini-drill-bits... vise or anvil would be nice
2 nylon bushings...
Ok lets begin> i would recommemd doing the right metal gearbox first (because its easier to visualize) now take it completely apart...
first major step is : flipping all gears around on thier shafts...(start w/ the first shaft reduction) -you must put in a vise and tap it out lightly. repeat to all other gear reductions.
study the pics so you can visualize>>>
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
after gears are on opposite side & ALIGNED w/ SHAFTS CENTERED, you must now extract the last gear reduction (output shaft) and bore a hole slightly smaller in diameter than the ss pin. the picture shows idealy where you should want the pin in respect to the last gear reduction. look carefully because this can ruin everything (TRUST ME). drill directly through then take out quickly/ heres why: the gears are made of a die-cast material that opens up VERY quickly with a drill so its better to remove the gear, bore out the hole on the existing shaft...then fit the ss pin snugly (maybe a light tap) into the gear pin housing. this will now be able to withstand the great torque thats placed on this final gear reduction.
now take 5 c-style clamps and pry them over the shaft and slide them up against the gear wall...(look at pictures) note: 5 should do the trick , this reduces play AND be sure to stagger them so they make a complete circle...
now take 5 c-style clamps and pry them over the shaft and slide them up against the gear wall...(look at pictures) note: 5 should do the trick , this reduces play AND be sure to stagger them so they make a complete circle...
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
Now, take your output shaft and an old toothbrush and scrub them up good & dry. now get the j.bweld out (don't bother trying 5,30 min epoxy...as i did and its just not strong enough for this job!). mix up a decent size batch and apply very carefully to ONLY 4 of the 5 c -style clamps (this allows the last one to spin freely!) take your time and cover up the pin, 4clamps, and most of the gear. this will hold everything in place. -note (J.BWELD is incredible!)...WAIT A DAY to dry/cure.
The next day reassemble the gearbox and just feel how hard they are to move...(this means you must break them in for 2-3 HOURS to reseat the teeth) check out f.a.q. if your not aware what in talking about. keep breaking in and if you have ICE you should be running at about .30 to .40amps + or - .10 for any paticular voltage. -white-cap motors & .50 to .60 amps + or - .10 for any particular voltage -black capped motors.
if you don't have a good break-in feature than just use 4 double a's and eyeball it...i can't stress enough how important this is. it will syncronize them/tank will run more evenly.
The next day reassemble the gearbox and just feel how hard they are to move...(this means you must break them in for 2-3 HOURS to reseat the teeth) check out f.a.q. if your not aware what in talking about. keep breaking in and if you have ICE you should be running at about .30 to .40amps + or - .10 for any paticular voltage. -white-cap motors & .50 to .60 amps + or - .10 for any particular voltage -black capped motors.
if you don't have a good break-in feature than just use 4 double a's and eyeball it...i can't stress enough how important this is. it will syncronize them/tank will run more evenly.
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
about halfway through guys...now you probably wondered to yourself...What did i accomplish by doing all of this? well, you will now start to see it all come together in the following:
with your freshly broken in metal gearbox, remove the motor from the mount. take your vise/anvil and a socket thats bigger than the motor shaft but smaller than the pinion gear and a light brass hammer. heres what you need to do:
put a little grease on the shaft and place the motor on top of the vise or anvil with the socket over the pinion gear. begin to tap,tap away & AT ALL TIMES SUPPORT the other end of the shaft while tapping...soon it will slide down. tap down until approx. 1mm of space is left. then sand off or taper 1/2mm to 3/4 mm of pinion gear on other side (look closely at pic). remount motor (note: This is probably one of the best times to be delicate...i broke one pinion gear being slightly overzealous.)
reassemble gearbox.
with your freshly broken in metal gearbox, remove the motor from the mount. take your vise/anvil and a socket thats bigger than the motor shaft but smaller than the pinion gear and a light brass hammer. heres what you need to do:
put a little grease on the shaft and place the motor on top of the vise or anvil with the socket over the pinion gear. begin to tap,tap away & AT ALL TIMES SUPPORT the other end of the shaft while tapping...soon it will slide down. tap down until approx. 1mm of space is left. then sand off or taper 1/2mm to 3/4 mm of pinion gear on other side (look closely at pic). remount motor (note: This is probably one of the best times to be delicate...i broke one pinion gear being slightly overzealous.)
reassemble gearbox.
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
NOW...Don't wanna begin to sound redundant BUT LISTEN UP SOLDIERS!!...if you want to complete this mod here are the MOST CRUCIAL STEPS to complete this great alteration. now: think mathematical, analitical, and vizualize a gear reduction's teeth meshing together in perfection 2* , yes 2*!. i will say that if you overbore or misjudge you can just fugedaboudit...you will have no metal left to hold these crucial bushings in place and... sol. that said, before you begin, study and study this gearbox before you resume construction...i would even recommend looking at until you can see the teeth come together.
hint: a good way to practice is to very carefully remove the slipper clutch from its shaft and continously measure/visulize bore out the hole.
do this a few times and use permanent marker to make approx. bore out location. (i can only give approx. hole measurements as each gearbox is slightly different.)
thus, right gearbox as follows: motor side bushing= 3.2 1/2 centimeters up frm gearbox base X 6.5mm (this gives dead center of bushing hole). & opposite side is= you guessed THE SAME THINGlol. as again. there will be micron differences so its up to YOU to seat those TEETH in CORRECTLY.
begin to dremel out your marked hole so you it can house the 2* nylon bushings & shave off the excess plastic for exact fitment.-ps...the holes are very similar to where the existing brass brace was> but def. not exactly!
check for proper seating, this takes lots of patience but your almost there!...ONCE seated then testfit 3:1 gear and check for no slippage.
hint: a good way to practice is to very carefully remove the slipper clutch from its shaft and continously measure/visulize bore out the hole.
do this a few times and use permanent marker to make approx. bore out location. (i can only give approx. hole measurements as each gearbox is slightly different.)
thus, right gearbox as follows: motor side bushing= 3.2 1/2 centimeters up frm gearbox base X 6.5mm (this gives dead center of bushing hole). & opposite side is= you guessed THE SAME THINGlol. as again. there will be micron differences so its up to YOU to seat those TEETH in CORRECTLY.
begin to dremel out your marked hole so you it can house the 2* nylon bushings & shave off the excess plastic for exact fitment.-ps...the holes are very similar to where the existing brass brace was> but def. not exactly!
check for proper seating, this takes lots of patience but your almost there!...ONCE seated then testfit 3:1 gear and check for no slippage.
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
congrats if you successfully made it this far...i knew you could do it as its not that tough.
LAST MAJOR STEPS to ensure BULLETPROOF-NESS. take 30-min epoxy... the bushings shold be snug already so apply to inside and outside of gearbox casing...and now here are the 2 option mods which i recommend but only if you prefer>>>
1. epoxy ALL bushings in::::: 9 total now/ 5 on on side 4 on other ...great difference and includded in mod be sure to take out play by inserting mini 3mm sized washers.
2. epoxy the sliper clutch in...there is no need to put it through all that slippage. and it performs much better. (very easy to do)
-lastly this shouldn't be a mod but MANDATORY...relocate the brass brace to the frontal area of the gearbox.
LAST MAJOR STEPS to ensure BULLETPROOF-NESS. take 30-min epoxy... the bushings shold be snug already so apply to inside and outside of gearbox casing...and now here are the 2 option mods which i recommend but only if you prefer>>>
1. epoxy ALL bushings in::::: 9 total now/ 5 on on side 4 on other ...great difference and includded in mod be sure to take out play by inserting mini 3mm sized washers.
2. epoxy the sliper clutch in...there is no need to put it through all that slippage. and it performs much better. (very easy to do)
-lastly this shouldn't be a mod but MANDATORY...relocate the brass brace to the frontal area of the gearbox.
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
ALright, you and i are done...(well this was done about 2 weeks ago for me). i felt i must go into great detail in that exhausting series of posts...i strongly encourage you guys to perform this mod...you will derive so much satisfation from this.
NEW GEARBOX STATS ARE AS FOLLOWS: for Swath
120:1 gear ratio.
5 gear reductions.
3*torque.
3*less speed.
Scale Speed of Approx. 25.5-26km or 15.5-16 mph w/stock Hen Long elektronics @WOT/ white-cap motors...black-cap slightly faster.
Pulls only .31!!!!AMPS under Full load @ ANY VOLTAGE according to ICE.
More efficient...Moves like a Tiger 1 should...Looks sick...(tell em' Perry) fellow 120...Video to come shortly on this post...<<<STAY TUNED>>>
NEW GEARBOX STATS ARE AS FOLLOWS: for Swath
120:1 gear ratio.
5 gear reductions.
3*torque.
3*less speed.
Scale Speed of Approx. 25.5-26km or 15.5-16 mph w/stock Hen Long elektronics @WOT/ white-cap motors...black-cap slightly faster.
Pulls only .31!!!!AMPS under Full load @ ANY VOLTAGE according to ICE.
More efficient...Moves like a Tiger 1 should...Looks sick...(tell em' Perry) fellow 120...Video to come shortly on this post...<<<STAY TUNED>>>
#22
RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
Mailedfist,
Excellent work. Looks like we have done something very similiar. I remember spending hours arranging gears, flipping things around and trying to visualize how they should mesh. Then there was the handful of scrapped parts because a hole was off by a 10 thousands of an inch.
Really appreciate the build thread and perhaps this will act as a catalyst for others to do the same.
Looking forward to your vid. I imagine the perf is similiar to mine. If you can believe it our new puppy ate my camcorder so I need another before I can post to youtube. At least he left the tanks alone for now.
Perry
Excellent work. Looks like we have done something very similiar. I remember spending hours arranging gears, flipping things around and trying to visualize how they should mesh. Then there was the handful of scrapped parts because a hole was off by a 10 thousands of an inch.
Really appreciate the build thread and perhaps this will act as a catalyst for others to do the same.
Looking forward to your vid. I imagine the perf is similiar to mine. If you can believe it our new puppy ate my camcorder so I need another before I can post to youtube. At least he left the tanks alone for now.
Perry
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RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
thanks soo much Perry, i appreciate to comment to the fullest. yes, we spent lots of time testing theories and i can assure you guys that Perry's design was so tempting to do but this was after i already begun. plus i had no cad on vacation so i had to think "what would macgyver do?" ? and this is the result and i wanted it to be close to Hen Long stock looking as possible. (Like Perry's). [sm=thumbup.gif]
Perry, head to head your tiger would smoke mine with those crazy 400's in there![sm=shades_smile.gif]...but if you threw some black-caps it would be close and identical if you threw white-caps.
i love this setup and since i have a total of two tanks tiger 1 & sturmtiger i am thinking of going 140-160:1+ gear ratio for that beast. & when i finally (6mon. frm now get a pzIII that will have a more modest 80-90:1 gear ratio since that was a little faster.
ps- sucks about your cam but how can you be mad at a puppy? they are so lovable...yikes...what kind Perry? oh, & i might fab up some rear braces (not sure if i even need them though) on the gearboxes...
I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO 40:1 AGAIN!
OMG...look...look...WE HAVE THE SAME DOG!! well almost (1/2rottie/1/2black lab) totally cool dogs!! Perry's snow dog and mailedfist's riverdog FTW!
Perry, head to head your tiger would smoke mine with those crazy 400's in there![sm=shades_smile.gif]...but if you threw some black-caps it would be close and identical if you threw white-caps.
i love this setup and since i have a total of two tanks tiger 1 & sturmtiger i am thinking of going 140-160:1+ gear ratio for that beast. & when i finally (6mon. frm now get a pzIII that will have a more modest 80-90:1 gear ratio since that was a little faster.
ps- sucks about your cam but how can you be mad at a puppy? they are so lovable...yikes...what kind Perry? oh, & i might fab up some rear braces (not sure if i even need them though) on the gearboxes...
I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO 40:1 AGAIN!
OMG...look...look...WE HAVE THE SAME DOG!! well almost (1/2rottie/1/2black lab) totally cool dogs!! Perry's snow dog and mailedfist's riverdog FTW!
#24
RE: <Das Hen Long Tiger 1 Build>
My KT is true blue Tamiya with the stock gearboxes. It is entirely too fast and fish tails on concrete. They offer a 3:1 bolt on that I will most likely get. THe Tam gearboxes are sweet. Best part is that they are silent, just a slight whirr. You get that with a machined gear vs. the HL cast, even when broken in.
I found that the gear reduction reduces the stress on the elec's significantly and the HL elec's can handle 400's, especially if you heat sink them.
About the dog, he's a black lab and either insanely stupid or diabolically smart. He also likes to pich up sticks and use them to club my tanks as I drive them. Guess he's jealous cuz I lock him inside when I am shooting my guns.
Perry
I found that the gear reduction reduces the stress on the elec's significantly and the HL elec's can handle 400's, especially if you heat sink them.
About the dog, he's a black lab and either insanely stupid or diabolically smart. He also likes to pich up sticks and use them to club my tanks as I drive them. Guess he's jealous cuz I lock him inside when I am shooting my guns.
Perry