Glassing a warbird for the first time (Full Version)

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7aso -> Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 3:13:51 PM)

I will be glassing my 1/5th all wood P-51 this week. It will be my first time doing this. I went with the Midwest Microglas Cloth with Zap Z-Poxy Finishing Resin. Before I start, I would like to know:

What are the basic step-by-step instructions to go about glassing?

What area(s) should I start with first?

Can I cover the whole plane in one session, let it dry, then repeat again?

Can I use a latex paint such as krylon? If so, spray or brush?

Do I need to clearcoat it?

Anything else I left out please fill in. Thank you.



Broken -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 3:39:17 PM)

This should get you up and running-
http://www.tompierce.net/190/html/paint/glassing.htm
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/finishing_techniques/apply_fiberglass_finish/index.htm



Skyflying1 -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 4:17:53 PM)

Here's another link to give some ideas: http://www.rc-tech.net/fiber/fiber.htm



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 5:14:51 PM)

Those were by far the best guides I've ever read. Thank you!



Evil_Merlin -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 6:57:17 PM)

Hrm, one guy says to NEVER thin your epoxy, one guy says 50/50 mix... I wonder who is more correct.



BobH -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 7:42:09 PM)

I can't say for sure who's corret but I've glassed many planes and never thinned the finishing epoxy. I don't think its necessary.

I have been using a small roller though and it does make a lot of difference in the effort and finish. You can buy cheap short foam rollers at Home Depot etc. They put on the resin just like you would put on paint.. Very efficent and even with little sanding in between. Try it.. you'll like it.



Steve Collins -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 8:41:30 PM)

Using the correct epoxy, there is no need to thin it. The Z-Poxy is good stuff as it is. I have used Z-Poxy a lot and I also use West System epoxy for glassing.

Once you are done with the glassing, you will realize that the hardest part of the process was getting started.

The downside to covering the whole plane in one session is that you cannot set it down anywhere until the epoxy cures. If you have the fuse on a stand like the type that connects to the motor mount and rotates around, there is no reason why you can't cover it all in one session. Cover the wing on one side one day and cover it on the other side the next day. Same goes for the control surfaces that should be glassed before they are permanently attached.



Edwin -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 8:45:09 PM)

I dont thin finish reson. But I do thin epoxy. Both have worked ok for me. I find the finish reson to give a little firmer part. Epoxy is slightly more flexible which works pretty good for cowls and making parts. When glassing a wood fuse or wing I like to have it pretty thin for spreading. One coat does it for me. Then I use a light weight filler for the weave.
Edwin



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 8:57:13 PM)

I am having an impossible time trying to find an aluminum paint that is fuel proof. I've been searching the forum for hours and I keep running into dead ends.

I heard Rustoleom is fuel proof but not their aluminum. Same goes for Krylon.



BobH -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 9:43:01 PM)

You can "fuel proof" paint buy over coating it with clear (either glossy or satin finish) from Nelson's paints. An additive makes his clear fuel proof and since it's water base it goes over every things.

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/28/2007 11:21:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH

You can "fuel proof" paint buy over coating it with clear (either glossy or satin finish) from Nelson's paints. An additive makes his clear fuel proof and since it's water base it goes over every things.

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html



Through my forum searches, I read that fuel proofing Krylon or Rostoleum makes them loose their shine, but I will look into Nelson's paints.

Quick question: my wing fairings are plastic. Do I have to glass those too or should I just apply primer to them?



BobH -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 12:50:49 AM)

Do yourself a favor and use a decent paint. I wouldnt recommend krylon or rustoleum paint. If you are going through the trouble of building and glassing your plane then use a decent paint too. You'll be more than glad you did.. In stead of those to paints I'd opt for Latex paint thinned and sprayed. My preference would be to use Warbird paints or Nelson's or Klass Kote. Any one of those three will serve you well.
You don't have to glass the fairings but you can.



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 1:45:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH

Do yourself a favor and use a decent paint. I wouldnt recommend krylon or rustoleum paint. If you are going through the trouble of building and glassing your plane then use a decent paint too. You'll be more than glad you did.. In stead of those to paints I'd opt for Latex paint thinned and sprayed. My preference would be to use Warbird paints or Nelson's or Klass Kote. Any one of those three will serve you well.
You don't have to glass the fairings but you can.



How would I go about getting the aluminum look with warbardpaints.com? I didn't see it being offered. Closest I found was Dark Grey..

This is the exact paint scheme I'm going for:

[image]http://djtaso.com/pica/cripesamighty.jpg[/image]



BobH -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 2:09:39 AM)

Ok for that "paint scheme" you really need to use Flite Metal. It's real aluminum not paint. I don't think there is any paint that will yield a polished aluminum surface.



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 3:18:00 AM)

What color do you think on warbirdpaint.com would come close to that look? I really want to glass it and paint it rather than use flite metal. If I can come close I would be happy.



bigtim -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 4:54:09 AM)

here's a suggestion it may or may not work for you but its something I have been using for parts I want to look like aluminum.
it's a paint called Modern Masters the paint is water based and has metalic particles in it the color I have been using is ME-150 SILVER(OPAQUE).
it looks really nice and sprays out well I haven't done any fuel testing on it because I have been clear coating with www.warbirdcolors.com paint.
I got it from the local Benjamin Moore paint store where I get my supplies for work,I am a finish carpenter and painter,but when sprayed it gives a smooth alum. finish it also brushes out pretty well also.
these days I have been working with water based paint almost exclusively my lungs and family appreciate it, I have been pleasantly surprised with the results, the WBColors is a nice product I am quite pleased with the results I am getting with it.



BobH -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 1:27:35 PM)

Take a look here:

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/survivors/pages/45-11507.shtml

That page shows the original and the restored plane. Quite a difference I think. You can reproduce the original scheme using paint more closely than the restored (very shiney) plane. Although I haven't used it Behr aluminum latex paint is supposed to yield a very good look.

bigtim might have some other paints worth looking into also.

Oh one more thing.. on the original Mustangs the wings were painted aluminun unlike the Fuse which was left natural aluminum (on some planes).



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 6:38:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH

Take a look here:

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/survivors/pages/45-11507.shtml

That page shows the original and the restored plane. Quite a difference I think. You can reproduce the original scheme using paint more closely than the restored (very shiney) plane. Although I haven't used it Behr aluminum latex paint is supposed to yield a very good look.

bigtim might have some other paints worth looking into also.

Oh one more thing.. on the original Mustangs the wings were painted aluminun unlike the Fuse which was left natural aluminum (on some planes).



I believe I found it,

http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/products_detail?prodGroupId=29&catName=Faux%2FDecorative+Finishes&catId=18

It comes in a can.



BobH -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 7:11:18 PM)

Now that you've found it good luck with it. And show some pictures please.



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/29/2007 7:34:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH

Now that you've found it good luck with it. And show some pictures please.


Will do.

I should be glassing it this evening. I will take progress pictures and post them.



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/30/2007 5:38:14 AM)

After 2 quick coats of Deft Sanding Sealer, I started glassing the stabs.

[image]http://djtaso.com/pica/08-29-07_2311.jpg[/image]

Process is pretty simple. After I applied the poxy, I went over it with a credit card to squeegee out the excess.

Quick question: what's the best way to clean your brush after this stuff?



Edwin -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/30/2007 3:41:59 PM)

Throw it away. After mixing, I pour it out of the cup onto the surface, as needed, and start the squeegy action. I mix smaller amounts so the reson wont start hardening up while I'm still spreading. On the fuse there are times I use those cheap tin handle brushes to get into areas a card wont get to. I also do the tp roll to soak up any little bits of reson and then another quick light bit of squeegy action. A handy mixing cup is those puddin cups. About a third filled is perfect, time wise, for spreading.
Edwin



tubig -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/31/2007 1:56:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 7aso

Quick question: what's the best way to clean your brush after this stuff?


denatured alchohol will clean your brushes. i use an artist's white hair brush when i glass with either epoxy or polyester resin and continually clean and reuse it. one trick to helping clean brushes (and this goes for any type of applied material, ie. paint, epoxy, mold release, etc) is to dip the brush in the appropriate cleaning solvent prior to using it. this not only helps with the application but helps to keep the material from sticking so much to the bristles making it easier to clean.



7aso -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/31/2007 7:51:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tubig

quote:

ORIGINAL: 7aso

Quick question: what's the best way to clean your brush after this stuff?


denatured alchohol will clean your brushes. i use an artist's white hair brush when i glass with either epoxy or polyester resin and continually clean and reuse it. one trick to helping clean brushes (and this goes for any type of applied material, ie. paint, epoxy, mold release, etc) is to dip the brush in the appropriate cleaning solvent prior to using it. this not only helps with the application but helps to keep the material from sticking so much to the bristles making it easier to clean.


Thanks for that tip! It worked out great!

Just applied the second coat on the fuselage today. Got the tail and the belly to go.

[image]http://djtaso.com/pica/08-31-07_1341.jpg[/image]



jaka -> RE: Glassing a warbird for the first time (8/31/2007 8:41:36 PM)

Hi!
Best is Aceton! Alcohol will not work as good!



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