RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk   
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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 6:03 PM   
jmhh


 

Posts: 242
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Joined: 4/17/2007
Last Login: 6/20/2008
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Kaelan..full dsiclosure...I haven't flow a BCP and am not so hot
with my BH at the moment..from what I have read the BCP can be very
frustrating to fly..check out the Eflite forums here on RCU...the BH
is a fine machine and I feel a good value for the money..especially the
SE (AL and carbon) model...is this your first Heli?...if so, I might
suggest a co-axial (2 main blade) model to start, like the Eflite Blade CX2
...well supported here on RCU...for a beginner,the BH might be too frustrating
and difficult...you can find many used BCX2's on eBay, stock and highly
modified...just my 2 cent...John H.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 6:50 PM   
srouthouse


 

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From: auburn, CA, USA
Status: offline 		BH450se was my first heli and im so glad i went this route instead of dumping money in less of a bird. i do recommend getting a honeybee fixedpitch from mike at ka-planes and then you can use your TX with a sim. between the beater heli and the sim youll get really good with the BH450.

the 450 is the way to go and much easier to learn on then a bcp. the BH does start smooth and the esc will cut off all though you dont want it to get that low. parts are very cheap for the BH and yes theres allot interchangeable with the trex but what ive seen with my trex is the BH parts from mike are cheaper then the trex parts.

the bcp doesnt compare with the BH the only heli thats close is the falcon3d but with the tail not being belt drivin i went with the BH

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 7:19 PM   
Kaelan


 

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From: Kingston, GA, USA
Status: offline 		yeah.. I already tossed the BCP out of the running... but it was the Belt CP (Esky not eflite) I was asking about. I thought about getting a lesser heli at first like a HBFP but... I don't want to dump money into something that will not be flown for a long before getting bored with it. that and I won't be flying indoors.. so I needed something a bit bigger that can handle mild gusts of wind without flying into the nearest tree top. I know that the Esky Belt Cp is the same size class as the BH and the Belt CP is a good machine based on the reviews in the Esky forum here at RCU... .. but the remarks on here from everyone that got a BH from Mike are really making me lean towards getting one..

I've been using the sim a lot over the last week (bought the Esky sim/controller) and can pretty much hover anywhere I want or even dead still as long as it's tail in (using HeliSimRC since it's much better than FMS and it's free as well).. It'll be another month before I'll be able to buy a heli, so any input would be great..


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 7:21 PM   
Kaelan


 

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From: Kingston, GA, USA
Status: offline 		as far as the ESC cutting off at low voltage, do you know if it's programmable to not cut off but to reduce output?? (causing a drop in head speed letting you know it's time to land before it drains the battery to far)


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 7:52 PM   
srouthouse


 

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Status: offline 		never have let my battery get that low to find out except for my first hover. after 5 minutes i shut down so i dont know.

belt or blade still doesnt compare to the BH.

you would never get bored with the HBFP i love that little heli and allot of us still fly that one more then our CP helis. dont under estimate it.

yep helisimrc is the only sim i use lol its great and will give you a good feel

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 10:48 PM   
ea01bg


 

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From: Berne, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I havent flown the Belt CP but I have seen it, size alone would make it less stable than the BH

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 10:56 PM   
mikek0416


 

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From: WEST MELBOURNE, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I have posted the maunals for the gyro and ESC on the bottom of this page

http://www.ka-planes.com/black_hawk_helis_parts

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/8/2008 11:59 PM   
Helihap


 

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From: milledgeville, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Agree srouthouse FPs are nice to fly around.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 12:03 AM   
freddonner


 

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From: TITUSVILLE, FL, USA
Status: offline 		yes it has a low voltage cut off but I dont usually go that low

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 1:29 AM   
Scootist


 

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From: lebanon, OR, USA
Status: offline 		MY dad and I got BH 450se for x-mas and were both totally new to helis, needless to say were both blown away with this little bird. Parts are pretty inexpensive, between the two of us we've only done 60 bucks worth of damage and have tons of extra parts.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 2:15 AM   
Kaelan


 

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From: Kingston, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ea01bg

I havent flown the Belt CP but I have seen it, size alone would make it less stable than the BH



the Belt CP is EXACTLY the same size as the BH..

here's what I have seen to compare the 2 with...

Belt CP:
Length:650mm
Height:230mm
Main Blade diameter:680mm
Tail Blades diameter :130mm
Motor: 450 brushless motor (Outrunner 3800KV)
ESC: 25A
Gyro: ESKY professional gyro (non-head holding)
Servo:8g*4Pcs
Battery: Li-poly Battery 1800mAh,11.1V,20C
TX/RX Esky brand 6ch


Black Hawk:

Length:650 mm = 25.5" (with canopy)
Width: 112 mm = 4.5"
Height: 240 mm = 9.4"
Main Rotor 675 mm = 26.5"
Main rotor blade length: 310 mm ea. = 12.2" (can use 315s+)
Tail rotor blade length: 55 mm ea
3200kv outrunner brushless motor
Powertech 35A ESC
KeyTech head lock gyro
11.1v 2200mah KeyTech Lipo
Tower Pro 9g servos
TX/RX Wfly 6ch


Both Heli's are belt drive for the tail rotor.. both also do NOT have direct to swash for the servos...

for the most part they appear to be real close in just about everything.. the BH does have a HH gyro and a bigger lipo (unknown discharge rate though) the ESC on the BH is a bit bigger (35a compared to 25a) but the Brushless is a bit smaller based on KV values.. this is why I was asking if anyone has flown both and give an honest opinion of the 2 Helis.. is the Wfly radio that much better than a Esky? I know the HH gyro doesn't cost enough to make up the price difference ($100.00 is a big price difference) I know that Mike sets up and test flies all the BH's before they leave his store.. and That alone means a lot.. but not $100.. Can parts from a Trex be used on the BH? and by parts I mean common parts.. blades, feathering shafts, blade grips, boom.. things that break often when you have a crash or blade strike... Like a lot of people, the 2 LHS's around me carry E-Flite and Align..no one carries Heli-Pro or Esky parts so parts would either have to be ones from an Align or ordered online..

Now I read in this thread where one person was going to sell his Trex because he loved the BH more...what was it that made the BH better than the Trex to you?

< Message edited by Kaelan -- 1/9/2008 2:23 AM >


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 2:18 AM   
Kaelan


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scootist

MY dad and I got BH 450se for x-mas and were both totally new to helis, needless to say were both blown away with this little bird. Parts are pretty inexpensive, between the two of us we've only done 60 bucks worth of damage and have tons of extra parts.



this is the things I like to hear.. beginners like me, and no major expensive parts broken... did you have to order your replacement parts online or do you have a LHS that carries the things you need?


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 2:47 AM   
Helihap


 

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From: milledgeville, GA, USA
Status: offline 		i know that you can take the main frame of a belt cp and litterally bend it in half with your hand.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 4:02 AM   
Kaelan


 

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From: Kingston, GA, USA
Status: offline 		ok.. that's good to know... frame is stiffer/stronger on the BH... to me a stiffer frame means a heli that will respond better and not twist under motor torque... (btw.. my RC back ground was mainly with buggies and nitro trucks but I worked for a few years as a structural assembler on the C5-B so I kinda understand airframes I also did 6 years in the USN as an avionics tech)


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 1:30 PM   
MiniCwik



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From: New Baltimore, MI, USA
Status: offline 		UGH!

I typed the longest reponse and RCU decided to have issues with cookies, dangit!

Okay, second attempt ...

Kalean,

I have a BH450 heli that I got RTF from Mike @ KaPlanes and it is a reall great heli, super stable, and a blast to fly! I later installed an all metal head and tail on it, a logitech 2100t gyro, a futaba 9650 digital rear servo, and align 315mm pro woodie blades. The heli performed flawlessly and is a great heli!

Recently I built a T-Rex 450 SE using an HDX STK superframe, metal tail gear, new design main gear, the metal head and tail, the logitech 2100t gyro, futaba 9650 digital servo, the tower pro SG90 servos, the motor and esc from my BH and align 325mm pro woodie blades and a futaba 6exh tx & rx radio setup. It flies just like my BH does/did, except it has a slightly lower profile and due to the different gear/tail gear design has a faster more precise tail response, which is the only advantage.

They are both great helis! The BH450 is a steal for the price though, and I will be re-building my BH as a second heli. KaPlanes really adds added levels of customer service to the heli and that makes it a better value than the T-Rex and costs considerably less $$$.

Big thanks to Mike @ KaPlanes as well for posting links to the manuals for the ESC and gyro as well!

< Message edited by MiniCwik -- 1/9/2008 1:39 PM >

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 5:07 PM   
mikek0416


 

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From: WEST MELBOURNE, FL, USA
Status: offline 		thank you and I am glad the manuals help out
Mike

ka-planes

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 6:30 PM   
srouthouse


 

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From: auburn, CA, USA
Status: offline 		you asked why i would sell the trex over the BH

because the trex is a 450xl plastic frame, head and tail but most of all i just like the BH450se better.

i didnt know the belt was the same size, and ive never heard anything positive about them in any of the forums to get enough interest to learn more about them.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 6:43 PM   
MiniCwik



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From: New Baltimore, MI, USA
Status: offline 		The T-Rex XL is a plastic frame, I have one that I got cheap for my bro ... I was tempted to take the parts from it and fit as many as possibly into my BH and give to him ... but I would rather keep the BH for myself

The BH 450 and 450SE are amazing heli's! You cannot go wrong with them!

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 9:10 PM   
Kaelan


 

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From: Kingston, GA, USA
Status: offline 		thanks guys... it's stuff like that that help making a decision a bit easier..it'll still be at the very least another month before I get a heli (woohoo tax return being used t buy me some toys).. I know the Belt CP has a lot of fans here on RCU... and supposedly a 2.4ghz version is coming out soon.. BUT... I keep seeing comments about how great the service from Ka-Planes is and that alone speaks volumes to me.. With all the recommendations of buying from Mike and hearing how great his service is and how fast parts ship... it tells me that if I get a BH and crash it.. parts would only be a few days away..


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/9/2008 10:02 PM   
srouthouse


 

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Status: offline 		ive been driving Mike nuts lol with special request ect and he,s been a champ and if i even mention i may need something he doesnt have in stock in a few days its up on his website. the guy is stand up.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/10/2008 12:32 AM   
Scootist


 

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From: lebanon, OR, USA
Status: offline 		You can't top the service from Kaplanes Mike is a verry helpful guy, parts are pretty cheap and only take a couple days to show up. The BH 450se frame is pretty strong alott stronger than it looks in the pictures and the motor seems to be plenty powerful for someone new to helis and Im new to helis so maybe it's not but when I turned off my tx before my rx it sounded like a dentist drill from HE*L lol.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/10/2008 1:59 PM   
Kaelan


 

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From: Kingston, GA, USA
Status: offline 		well... after all the good things I keep hearing about Mike.. and the good things I hear about the BH... along with a lot of reports about the ESC on the Belt CP being crap and causing sudden loss of power (crashes due to loss of power caused by a poor soldering job from the factory on a ferrite ring used to cut back on RF interference).. I think I'll go with the BH.. it'll be a while before I order it..and it'll be the BH 450 rtf (450se is a bit out of my price range right now) would be ordering it now but I'm still recovering from Xmas (3 kids... 2 teen age boys and a 4yr girl)


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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/10/2008 2:32 PM   
MiniCwik



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Status: offline 		Kaelan, that's a good choice! You'll be happy you went with it once you get it and see what we all mean.

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EP Helis - T-Rex 500 CF (401/9257) & 450 SE V2 (Scorpion -8V2/401/9257)

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/10/2008 8:41 PM   
jmhh


 

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From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Kaelan..think about the SE...it has all the AL/carbon parts you're probably
gonna want in the future at a great price (Ask Mike if any upcoming specials)
...and, this Forum is also a major resource of information and encouragement
...truly invaluable...I'd really be lost without it...cheers, John H.

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RE: The Better HeliPro Black Hawk - 1/10/2008 10:58 PM   
gino198


 

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From: , TN, USA
Status: offline 		yes it is really a hot heli. they are both very nice but the SE is incredible in looks and structure.

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