RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse?  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse?
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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/7/2007 6:33:57 PM   
JimTrainor


 

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How fast can a 40 size model helicopter ascend? The seem to ascend pretty fast at full power.

How much does one typically weight?

If they ascend at ~10 m/s, and weigh ~3 Kg, thats ~0.4 HP lifting power.

Account for losses (e.g. araerodynamic drag and transmission loss) and power pushes toward 1 HP net engine output.


< Message edited by JimTrainor -- 9/7/2007 9:15:47 PM >

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/7/2007 7:37:56 PM   
scratchonly


 

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Are we getting far beyohd the purpose of this thread? The question has been answered 75 different ways????

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/7/2007 8:15:42 PM   
DarZeelon



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ScratchOnly,


The point was that a 'cruising' horse, i.e. working at a pace it can maintain for a full working day and a glow engine producing 1 HP, actually do demonstrate the same power output.


Some posters did have their doubts and many remarked that James Watt's whole 'comparison to a horse' idea was pretty dim-witted, but I believe most participants now understand how the comparison was made and that it is true.

A horsepower, really IS?


This is my post #6,000 in this forum...

< Message edited by DarZeelon -- 9/7/2007 8:20:23 PM >


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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/7/2007 9:24:38 PM   
Cambo



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarZeelon

This thread has turned into a real racket... I can't stop laughing

While Jan Karlsson and I (both dealing for MVVS - see that?) team up to bring in the sheaves and to plough that field with our geared down ST .40 engine and Grant helps Randy set up that horse we replaced with the Super Tigre, geared-up in the nose of his trainer, to spin an APC 10x6 at 14K..., there is one thing I can conclude...

In Europe car engines are rated in kilowatts - not in HP... probably, because this very good reason...

When engines and electric motors are rated in kW output, nobody will think of installing geared horses in his R/C model, or thinking of pulling farm equipment with geared model glow engines... But most electric motors are more often rated for their kW input...


Simple, it ain't...


One HP output is the amount of work a horse can perform 'cruising' - not going at full power... This adds another variable to the equation and simplifies the kW even more...



Well said

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/7/2007 9:29:02 PM   
Flyboy Dave



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....as soon as I find a flying horse, I'm gonna whoop all 'yer butts....

FBD.


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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/7/2007 11:23:14 PM   
Flyboy Dave



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....here ya' go Jaka....hook up the 1 horsepower MVVS, and git to pulling....

The good new is, you only have to pull it two miles in one hour.

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 2:51:31 AM   
Flyboy Dave



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....here's the competition for you 2 horsepower Guys....

FBD.

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 3:08:36 AM   
w8ye



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Lets stop all these silly posts and get back on topic or there will be no use to continue with this thread.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 9/10/2007 2:07:50 AM >


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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 10:41:01 AM   
speedster 1919



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quote:

The flywheel should not affect sustained peak power output. You do not get more power by removing the flywheel unless the flywheel was creating air resistance. Do you have tach numbers to back your claim?

This whole discussion is valid and a 3HP Norvel is a joke comparing it to 3 work horses true power. Watt was not a dim witt but a pioneer for 1789 with no gas engines and electric motors invented yet to compare his steam engine to. The horse was the standard work engine of the time.
Grant put a rope on a horse with other end wrapped around a shaft with a little gearing ,won't even break a sweat spinning a 10x6 prop 14K. Grant these forums are full of accounts taking off crankshaft fly wheel is good for a couple hundred RPM. Without the couple extra ounces that has no air resistance will spool up much quicker.
A horse has no clue what he is expected to do. You decide to go to church in your buggy. You walk to the barn and start putting harness on horse. He does not know if he will pull a stump, or plow a field , or pull a buggy to church. You can tell him what he expected to do that day. You think he will understand ? You let a horse go by himself and tell him this is a race. Don't let me catch you. Of course you will catch him because he didn't know the grand scheme of things. Sure a horse that pulls a mine cart everyday of his life will get the general idea what to do when he sees the cart and tracks again.

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 12:16:52 PM   
longdan



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quote:

Lets stop all these silly posts and get back on topic or there will be no use to continue with this thread.


Yes, I agree.

For those that have got a bit sidetracked, the original title of the thread was "1 horsepower, really the power of a horse?"
My opinion on the subject is no, 1 horsepower is not the power of 1 horse. It is simply a name given to a unit of measure that tells us how much power is being output (or absorbed) by a machine.
A horse is a very unreliable and inconsistent standard by which to measure something. Regardless of all the reasoning behind the name, I think our revered Mr Watt may have had a bit of a flight of fantasy and applied some artistic license when coming up with a name for his new unit of power.
I myself prefer the unit known as a Watt, named after the man himself.

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 2:02:36 PM   
gkamysz


 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workload

This is my last post here. Read the paragraph about quantified effort. So now we know that a horse can actually output 14 horsepower briefly. This would be the stump pulling example or maybe a well trained racing horse for the first few seconds of a race.

Where as an engine rated at 1 HP is always 1 HP no matter what RPM and torque is used to derive it.

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 3:58:36 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

The thrust rating in horsepower of our little engines is about as absurd as you can get. I
think not many know the actual power of a horse, unless you were raised on a farm and
experienced the actual power of a horse.

A friend of mine had some property up near Tehacapi Cal. We used to go up there about
once a month. Everyone had horse up there. Horses are a big business. We went over to
one of his neighbors house to pay a visit one afternoon. The guy was trying to remove a
tree stump from his front yard. He had already removed the tree. It was a good sized tree
stump, about 18 inches across. He had dug down about two and a half feet around the
stump, and had chopped the roots that he could get to around the stump.

He hooked his big bad V-8 powered pickup truck to the stump with a chain, and tried to drag
the stump out of the hole....no way. There still were plenty of roots going straight down into the
ground, and he could not even wiggle the stump. One of his neighbors that was there observing
with us said, wait a minute, I'll go get my horse.

Let's say the truck engine was rated at 300 HP....say there might have been 150 HP rated
horsepower at the rear wheels.

The guy returns with a nice horse with a pulling harness over its neck with chains on it. They
hook the chains to the chains on the stump. The guy gives the horse the command, and the
horse bears down....bears down again and yanks this big stump right out of the ground,
snapping all the still connected roots all at the same time. You should have been there
to hear those roots breaking, it was loud.




Pulling out a tree stump takes force not power. The 150 HP is a poor example because it would put 0 HP to the ground because it did not need to move much to pull the stump and the wheels would spin before putting out that much force. My grandad pulled out stumps all day long with a tractor, winch, and chain. Pull out the stump as much as you can with the tractor tie another chain to a larger tree or boulder, once he augered a hole and anchored a chain into that hole, put a winch on the chain and used the tractors PTO to power a winch which pulled the stump. The tractor only had a four cylinder engine so I am sure it had a lot less power than the pickup truck.

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RE: 1 horsepower, really the power of a horse? - 9/8/2007 4:02:30 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

I think our revered Mr Watt may have had a bit of a flight of fantasy and applied some artistic license when coming up with a name for his new unit of power.


No, there have been quite a few who have measured the power of a horse, and Mr. Watt actually got close to their averages. I think some are confusing what power is, it is not force alone, it is not speed alone. You can have 1 HP with more force than a horse can put out but not much speed, or a lot of speed and much less force than the horse is capable of.

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