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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Aerial Photography and Video >> RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes?
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RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 10/24/2007 12:16:29 PM   
tpita


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: tallinnest, ESTONIA
Status: offline
quote:

I hope some of that helped. If not, maybe it will help the next guy looking for the same stuff you and I were looking for.


It was one of the most informative responses in this thread. Thanks a lot! Now I'm off to look for the resources you referenced.

(in reply to anci3nt)
       Post #: 26

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 10/24/2007 7:21:03 PM   
JettPilot



Posts: 1149
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Paradise, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NikolayTT


Recently some one said and I am about quite to agree that doing
UAV without rules is like Aero-Hooliganism and can be understood
as Mindless Active Terorism Act and it is to be punished as such.

Do you want to see yourself under the Terrorist Act in USA or EU ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------




People like Nikolay are a terrorists best friend. When you get people that want to start labeling others as "terrorists" just because they do someting they dont like, then you start labeling large numbers of normal people as " Terroists" and take the resources of law enforcement away from the REAL terrorists. Im sure that every extremeist out there will be very happy that the police and the government are out there trying to catch innocent civilians instead of them as they plan their next act.

So how far do you take this Nikolay ? Do you call anyone that speeds as a Land-Hooligan and label them as a terrorist also ? After all, if you are honest, hundreds of people are killed in cars every day... People in cars have a much greater chance of killing you than an RC plane, so do you label every one that drives badly as a " Terroist " and put them under the Terroists Act ??? But even though driving is more dangerous, I bet that it is just not new and exciting enough to get NikolayTT's interest.

You are just an emotional guy that gets all worked up by something that is new and scarey to you, while you dont have the intelligence to see what is a REAL threat and what is not. To make it worse, you would start using the resources of anti terrorisim to go after anyone you dont like, which makes it much easier for the real terrorists that would do real harm succeed, because law enforcement is busy harassing university students, and researchers that fly video planes. Real smart NickolayTT.

JettPilot

< Message edited by JettPilot -- 10/24/2007 7:23:27 PM >

_____________________________

THE TRUTH ABOVE ALL ELSE...

(in reply to NikolayTT)
       Post #: 27

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 10/24/2007 8:39:29 PM   
wjglynn



Posts: 154
Joined: 7/25/2006
From: Topeka, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Hey JettPilot, we haven't even gotten into the fact that you are also a video-hooligan too. Putting perfectly good video equipment in peril. The shame, the shame!

(in reply to JettPilot)
       Post #: 28

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/6/2008 7:00:57 PM   
lvspark



Posts: 348
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: WALLA WALLA, WA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tpita

Hi guys.

I started building RC planes quite a while ago, but I have been very much dealing with it alone without much interacting with fellow builders. I am now interested in aerial photography from airplanes, unmanned beyond-line-of-sight flight (programming is my main occupation) and their combination.

One thing I cannot find a whole lot of information about is the legislature.

I have had quite many questions over the years. I suppose others have as well. So I'm listing most of my critical questions in the hope that it will be beneficial for myself and fellow readers for a long time to come. Even if you know the answers to only some, that would be highly appreciated.

1. Under which legislature do RC planes fall?
2. Which airspace, if any, is off limits to RC enthusiasts? (I have simply taken the safe road thus far)
3. Which are the limits where RC within line of sight planes are allowed to fly in the US, EU and elsewhere (altitude, size and weight of plane, purpose)?
4. What is the legislature for beyond-line-of-sight planes in US? I did research and found there is controversy with FAA over the regulation of UAV's of all types regardless of size.
5. What is the legislature for beyond-line-of-sight planes in the EU? It seems more relaxed, but where exactly does an RC plane end and an UAV start? Different regulation based on altitude, size and weight and purpose?



You could contact with your questions:
Estonian Civil Aviation Administration
Mr Kaskel Koit email koit.kaskel@ecaa.ee
or
Estonian Air Navigation Services
Mr Tamm Jaan email jaan@eans.ee

They are/were part of the Eurocontrol UAV crew

< Message edited by lvspark -- 3/6/2008 7:01:51 PM >

(in reply to tpita)
       Post #: 29

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/7/2008 3:33:51 AM   
patrickegan



Posts: 111
Joined: 9/12/2003
From: rcapa.net Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Nikolay, (or anyone else)

Are you going to www.UAS2008.org ?

_____________________________

www.rcapa.net

(in reply to anci3nt)
       Post #: 30

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/11/2008 9:17:54 PM   
NikolayTT


 

Posts: 572
Joined: 9/29/2002
From: Tampere, FINLAND
Status: offline 		Patrick,

Good that you mentioned the meeting. It was better to go there several years
ago but nowadays it seems to be more on regluatory issues and less on the
technology (link to http://www.uas2008.org/UAV2007_Recap.pdf). And also see
the people and institutions(!) who attend this - they are mostly users and heavy
business ones and do not like to talk about the technology for obvious reasons.
Anyway, if you would like to go, try to register ASAP so they can study your
interest and approve you as participant. As for technology side, even it is shown
something in some cases, I am only getting the feeling that even the best in
RCU is a "bit" too old and cheaper compared to what those guys use there;
their budget seems Class Super-Unlimited... and too much beyond reach for
almost all RCU folks. Do you agree ?

Regards,
Nikolay

(in reply to patrickegan)
       Post #: 31

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/11/2008 10:30:30 PM   
patrickegan



Posts: 111
Joined: 9/12/2003
From: rcapa.net Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I am already presenting at UAS 2008 on behalf of the RCAPA (Remote Control Aerial Photography Association scroll down to A14 to read my abstract. http://www.uas2008.org/All-Abstracts.pdf

My presentation is going to be on what we do.


_____________________________

www.rcapa.net

(in reply to NikolayTT)
       Post #: 32

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/11/2008 10:59:27 PM   
NikolayTT


 

Posts: 572
Joined: 9/29/2002
From: Tampere, FINLAND
Status: offline 		Congratulations Patrick ! You are on the serious side and that is a business !
Then you might be well "amazed" by what was "discussed" and almost ...
"agreed" here in RCU ...

(in reply to patrickegan)
       Post #: 33

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/15/2008 3:32:11 PM   
xtratorque


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 9/30/2002
From: Franklin, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I agree that the kind of resources available to a typical RC user would not even compare to what the military would use for a UAV. I cannot believe that a trainer with a fpv system would be mistaken for a rogue terrorist aircraft. Taking pictures from an R/C aircraft is exactly that, taking pictures for recreational use, the same as taking pictures from a Cessna 172 on a scenic flight. I believe that the most serious thing to be concerned about from a realistic standpoint is taking appropriate safety precautions , making sure you are not near full scale aircraft or flying in congested flight areas. I wouldn't reccomend flying in the flight levels that's for sure, that's an invitation for a problem, you may be able to see a full size airplane but they won't be able to see you unless they know you were there and where to look for you. Basically what it comes down to is, make sure you stay away from other airplanes, avoid flying in highly congested residential areas and check your equipment.

(in reply to NikolayTT)
       Post #: 34

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/17/2008 9:44:52 PM   
wjglynn



Posts: 154
Joined: 7/25/2006
From: Topeka, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Patrick,

In your involvement in this process do you see any difference in the way an over the horizon or at least out of sight UAS system is viewed in comparison to an RC plane being piloted in the usual fashion but with a camera onboard? My greatest concern with new regulations is that the guys flying via video goggles will create overly burdensome regulation adversly affecting more the benign uses of cameras on RC aircraft?

Thanks,

Bill

(in reply to patrickegan)
       Post #: 35

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/19/2008 12:08:24 AM   
MustangRay


 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/20/2004
From: camino, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I joined www.rcapa.net , they are up to date on those matters Ray.

< Message edited by MustangRay -- 3/19/2008 12:16:26 AM >

(in reply to tpita)
       Post #: 36

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/19/2008 12:15:41 AM   
MustangRay


 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/20/2004
From: camino, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I joined www.rcapa.net they seem up to date! Ray. Sorry I double Posted!

< Message edited by MustangRay -- 3/19/2008 12:22:28 AM >

(in reply to tpita)
       Post #: 37

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/21/2008 1:51:06 AM   
Sgt_Ric


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/10/2006
From: High Prairie, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		In the absense of a reply yet from Patrick, I would like to point out that RCAPA and AMA and indeed even the FAA, all prohibit "beyond visual range" flight.

It would seem obvious that goggle flyers cannot possibly have the same situational awareness that anyone flying "in person" can have.

Such hazards as full size aircraft flying in on an intersecting course (other that head-on), and powerlines, sudden wind changes, etc. can not all be seen by the video goggle pilot 2 miles away.

(I know from first hand experience that stepping on the goggle video cable and losing signal can be VERY disorienting and heart-stopping. The regs say a "qualified spotter" can be used when you don't have line of sight, and now I know why!)

The non-commercial use of cameras on a directly controlled common sized R/C plane, flying under 300 or 400 feet should not be regulated.

As soon as we look at commercial use (charging for photos, etc), we have only to look at the full sized general aviation field to see that it is mainly an issue of insurance and liability which has formed the basis of the currect legislation.
No-one says that commercial flyers are more of a public danger (in fact those pilots are usually more skilled and safety oriented).


(in reply to wjglynn)
       Post #: 38

RE: Laws of RC and UAV planes? - 3/21/2008 2:11:08 PM   
wjglynn



Posts: 154
Joined: 7/25/2006
From: Topeka, KS, USA
Status: offline