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RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 3:12:16 AM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		i think the mass formation flying should be not done, maybe the pilots dont have the correct military type training needed. its all a terrible mess now. Going to many airshows i never used to see warbirds do anything but flybys, now they do full aerobatic routines. |Something has to be done to investigate the causes. the vid doesnt show the crash but they were all really low doing pullups and banks 45* or more. Its too bad and very sad

< Message edited by timothy thompson -- 9/17/2007 3:22:59 AM >

(in reply to NCIS)
       Post #: 26

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 10:57:06 AM   
jasonp51d



Posts: 228
Joined: 3/6/2003
From: Duxford, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I think you will find the pilot was extremely experienced with plenty of hours in this type of flying. Nothing I have seen or heard has led me to believe mass formation flying was a factor.

The accident will be exhaustively investigated by the AAIB and I'm sure that any recomendations that come out of the accident will be fully adopted.

Best regards

Jason

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www.361fg.com

(in reply to timothy thompson)
       Post #: 27

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 2:42:17 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6176
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		Sad to see another WWII plane go in. I was at Duxford when the Firefly went in.

I would like to commend the UK airshow circuit attitude. The show went on, as it should have. Maybe our airshows in the US could learn from them.

Seeing the show at Duxford is still the best show I have been too. There is nothing like seeing the mock combat and full-bore passes on the deck, thats what the planes were designed for.

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       Post #: 28

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 5:11:37 PM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		yes in 1942 not 2007. Unless you have a 100% new airframe its a big risk. There has to be a reason all these are happening this year. People are no longer happy watching flybys they want to see someone risk his life . Airshow attendance has declined linearly over the years. Kids are no longer interested and in school they are more interested in getting dates than learning them.
20 years ago every town had some type of show not anymore

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 29

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 6:36:50 PM   
Chad Veich



Posts: 2923
Joined: 12/13/2001
From: Litchfield Park, AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timothy thompson

yes in 1942 not 2007. Unless you have a 100% new airframe its a big risk. There has to be a reason all these are happening this year. People are no longer happy watching flybys they want to see someone risk his life . Airshow attendance has declined linearly over the years. Kids are no longer interested and in school they are more interested in getting dates than learning them.
20 years ago every town had some type of show not anymore


Most airshow related incidents this year have been non-warbird types, meaning the age of the aircraft has nothing to do with it. None of the incidents at Reno this year involved vintage types. I've been going to airshows for a long time as well and, quite honestly, the flying I see done today is much more subdued than it was 10 or 20 years ago in most cases. The people who own, operate, and restore these airplanes are not stupid and are fully aware of the rising value of the aircraft and so accordingly are much less likely to risk that investment doing something dumb. I think if you look through the records you will find that there were substantially more warbird related accident in the '70s and '80s then there are now. Maintenance and pilot proficiency have improved dramatically and, despite the age of the aircraft, warbird operations are much safer now than they were then. My .02 cents worth.

(in reply to timothy thompson)
       Post #: 30

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 7:33:49 PM   
jasonp51d



Posts: 228
Joined: 3/6/2003
From: Duxford, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Well said Chad.

This airframe has just emerged from a thorough overhaul by some very talented warbird specialists and was probaly in as good a condition as the day it emerged from the Hawkers factory.

Best regards

Jason

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(in reply to Chad Veich)
       Post #: 31

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 8:26:17 PM   
Dave in UAE



Posts: 35
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Status: offline 		If I am not mistaken the re-build of this particular aircraft can be seen on the Hawker Restorations site, not sure the URL at the moment.

Dave

(in reply to jasonp51d)
       Post #: 32

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 9:43:46 PM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		is there a vid that actually shows the crash itself

(in reply to Dave in UAE)
       Post #: 33

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 11:04:55 PM   
Oosiksmith


 

Posts: 520
Joined: 9/21/2002
From: Hampton, VA,
Status: offline 		Tim Thompson seems to relish warbird crashes. Every time one goes in he's on here getting everyone's dander up. Watch out, before too long he'll go cry to a moderator and get this thread closed just like the Ohio P-51 thread. The best policy is jsut try to ignore him.

Tim

(in reply to timothy thompson)
       Post #: 34

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 11:05:06 PM   
mR JoLLy



Posts: 393
Joined: 11/16/2003
From: Doncaster, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Deeply sad news indeed. Brian Brown comes from my Town of Doncaster and was well known in the piston warbird circles. He worked with the Real Aeroplane Company at Breighton 15 miles from Town.

I snapped a few pictures of him taking the Hurricane out at Breighton a few months ago.

He will be sadly missed.



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(in reply to timothy thompson)
       Post #: 35

RE: hurricane lost - 9/17/2007 11:51:57 PM   
rchotrod



Posts: 93
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: spivey, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Pilots have a greater chance of getting hurt in a car crash than in the airplanes they fly. The planes are probably in better shape now than when they were in military service.

It is sad to lose a plane, any plane. Be it at an airshow, an air race, a private plane or an airliner, even an r/c plane. Don't tell me you don't feel a bit sad when you crash one of your r/c planes. No one wants to go out and crash. It just happens. And hopefully we all learn from the crash.

If you fly, the risk is always there.

We should honor the pilots and keep the airshows flying. They gave their life doing what they loved.

See ya,
Rod

(in reply to mR JoLLy)
       Post #: 36

RE: hurricane lost - 9/18/2007 12:44:04 AM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		are their any videos? I HAVE BEEN VERY CIVIL UNLIKE OOK! YOU ARE FLAMING AND DEGRADING. im not saying to not fly them , it will be interesting when the causes all come back. I DO NOT RELISH CRASHES THAT IS A TERRIBLE THING TO SAY EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION. i feel sorry for the pilots and families geeze

< Message edited by timothy thompson -- 9/18/2007 12:47:59 AM >

(in reply to rchotrod)
       Post #: 37

RE: hurricane lost - 9/18/2007 1:10:44 AM   
BOLTMAN



Posts: 378
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: Hervey Bay, AUSTRALIA
Status: online 		Could it be that the higher number of warbird accidents is proportionally related to the fact there are more warbirds flying today than ever before?



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(in reply to timothy thompson)
       Post #: 38

RE: hurricane lost - 9/18/2007 1:58:55 AM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		good thought there you are correct. also all the replicas out there!

(in reply to BOLTMAN)
       Post #: 39

RE: hurricane lost - 9/18/2007 9:07:56 AM   
Dave in UAE



Posts: 35
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Status: offline 		http://www.hawker-restorations-ltd.co.uk/index.html

I found the link however I am mistaken in that the aircraft shown being re-built is not G-HURR, in fact these aircraft are re-built from many new parts with very little of the original aircraft being used. With over 35,000 man-hours per aircraft, they do a remarkable job.

Today a classic is lost and more importantly a family is grieving, let's not lose the big picture here, I'm sure in time all the answers will come out.

Regardless of whether these aircrat are flown aggresively or passively, to ban them from flying would do an injustice to the memory of those who flew them in the past and those who will fly them in the future. Much like our scale aircraft, they were meant to fly not be stared at in a museum.

I think I just broke my soapbox, off to the pub for a beer...

Dave

(in reply to timothy thompson)
       Post #: 40

RE: hurricane lost - 9/18/2007 3:27:31 PM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		i dont think anyone is calling on a ban. but if these continue that may happen. Most restorers do kn