Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD..  
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Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 9/19/2007 11:59:29 PM   
JeanLucPicard


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: KETTERING, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Anyone know a way of filming and transmitting HD video good enough to fly the model from??!! - Clearly technology exists as military have done this for some time - we only need a range of c 300 metres, not 10 miles so could be practical? - Naturally the model will be kept within sight and controlled either by std RC (model kept in normal site range) or via the LCD 'pilots view'

< Message edited by JeanLucPicard -- 9/20/2007 12:20:53 AM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 9/20/2007 11:25:17 AM   
bkdavy



Posts: 1432
Joined: 9/28/2004
From: FrederickMD, USA
Status: offline 		Any of the quality systems from Blackwidow, Future Hobbies, etc. are generally capable. The safe way to do it is to have a pilot on the main transmitter that keeps the plane in view, and use a buddy box for the person flying V/R. A set of V/R goggles is the best way. You also want to do it from a plane that is inherently stable. A trainer is an ideal plane for this. Set the camera up so you have a visual reference on the plane (such as keeping the prop in view).

Brad

(in reply to JeanLucPicard)
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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 9/29/2007 2:01:44 PM   
JeanLucPicard


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: KETTERING, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		yep, that makes sense - have looked at widow will now try future

(in reply to bkdavy)
       Post #: 3

RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 9/30/2007 6:19:32 AM   
JMSTECH



Posts: 220
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Duncan, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I had very good success dealing with Volva at Rangevideo.com . Bill at Blackwidow was also very good. Yes you can fly by goggle with a spotter. If you use a Futaba T9C like myself you can actually program one or two of the three rotating knobs up top to operate a pan/tilt servo for your camera. I started that way before head tracking. Sometimes I still go back to the rotating knobs because I get better 180 rotation. BTW 180' is possible by soldering 1K ohm resistors (3) on the potentiometer with in the Hitec s81 servo, the the stop tabs cut out. Cheap, easy and no added weight to the plane!

(in reply to JeanLucPicard)
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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 9/30/2007 12:14:23 PM   
JeanLucPicard


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: KETTERING, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		THanks JM, wow this hobby is really taking off! (I know, I know..)

Tell me, as I have only seen replays over the nett, can you get 480 lines and above to download live smoothly and clearly or are there stutters due to download rate. - Ideally I would 720 lines (basic HD colour) displayed on a high res monitor - with safety pilot on std buddy TX in plane view (there i go again....!)

What power would be required to tx (line of sight) 1000 metres without drop outs whilst minimalising possible interference on and off board?

Your servo mod with pan & tilt looks interesting - but what would happen to camera wires??!!

p.s. it seems that camcorders and digital cams / phones have far better lenses than those being sold to us by the RC specialists (also true of home security cos.) - HD should be easy and cheap to buy now - just neads bandwidth to TX signal - as this is low poer, channel cramming shouldnt be a restrictive issue?

(in reply to JMSTECH)
       Post #: 5

RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/1/2007 3:02:50 AM   
JMSTECH



Posts: 220
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Duncan, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Ideally I would like to use the higher res cameras too but a few problems I came across. 1) A/V TX & RX can only handle about 480tvl. 2)higher res compact cameras tend to have slower agc, meaning the higher the res, the more info the camera has to deal with so it tends to manage changing light condition poorly.
But there is hope and a few are working to solve this cheaply for all of us hobbyist to enjoy

As for power on the TX, I use a 500mW 2.4gHz Rangevideo setup and a 14dbi to easily get 2500 meters of clean uninterrupted video signals. But with a high gain patch like mine, the receiving beam is narrow so best have a buddy point the antenna at the plane at all time. Jettpilot here on this forum easily gets 5 miles on his 1 watt TX with a 14dbi patch antenna. Now I heard that 500mW maybe an issue in the UK, but better look into that to make sure.

The servo mod: Now I'm not sure what you mean about the camera wires? (Futaba t9CAP) My camera pan servo is connected to channel 7, my camera tilt servo is connected to channel 8. The 3 rotating knobs on the Futaba TX is programmed to operate those servos OR my head tracker pretends to be a buddy box and it can control those servos for me when I tilt or rotate my head (with video goggles on ). BTW Head tracker is gyro based (www.rc-tech.ch Andre Bernnet and one heck of a NICE GUY! If you go there tell him JMS sent you for you might get faster response because he is very busy! Ohh he can solve your long range low power rating problem.. he is an expert in this department!)
So the camera is connected to my A/V TX along with my mic and is powered separately by a 11.1v 800mw lipo.


As for lenses I tend to bring along a few to the field like 2.1mm wide (fish eye effect) and a 2.9mm same as human eye perception. The 2.1mm will make your view look like you are flying extremely high when you are not.

JMS

< Message edited by JMSTECH -- 10/1/2007 3:08:01 AM >

(in reply to JeanLucPicard)
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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/1/2007 1:10:48 PM   
JeanLucPicard


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: KETTERING, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		cheers JM for full and helpful reply.

I would be greatly obliged if you could keep me informed re HD cameras and low cost transmission

(in reply to JMSTECH)
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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/2/2007 6:50:13 AM   
JMSTECH



Posts: 220
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Duncan, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Oh yeah.. I most definitely will keep you all informed on any new stuff I come across like HD cameras, 3D stereo vision stuff, on screen displays with gps and auto pilot etc....

< Message edited by JMSTECH -- 10/2/2007 6:52:04 AM >

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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/3/2007 5:38:17 AM   
JettPilot



Posts: 1151
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Paradise, USA
Status: offline 		To the person that posted the question, you are making a really BAD assumption that you need HD and a big LCD to fly a model from. A standard camera and monitor will give you more than enough video quality to fly the model from, and at much further distances than you are talking about. I regularly fly 6 miles away, and video from a standard camera looks great on my 72 inch HDTV when I get it home. You are trying to make this much harder than it is.

JettPilot

_____________________________

THE TRUTH ABOVE ALL ELSE...

(in reply to JMSTECH)
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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/3/2007 4:04:49 PM   
JeanLucPicard


 

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/8/2007
From: KETTERING, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		...hmmm, making things much harder than they generally are.... about sums me up..!! - Being a frustrated perfectionist kinda does that to a fella though. - I love true HD imagery, so if its available, I shall want it!

I am intrigued - are you suggesting that you fly from an LCD with your model miles away????! - That would be spoooky.

I would be happy merely flying over my farm, swooping down over the house and enjoying it in full HD on a decent sized screen - the playback being more important perhaps than the flying via video?

(in reply to JettPilot)
       Post #: 10

RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/3/2007 4:45:14 PM   
Don41



Posts: 413
Joined: 9/4/2006
From: El Dorado, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Is there anyway to obtain artificial horizon feedback to your monitor? If not I'm curious as to how you accomplish flying out of sight? All I've ever seen were things like speed, direction,etc being transmitted back which left me thinking that it may be possible to fly remotely but only if you could check on the plane visually from time to time.


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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/4/2007 2:37:29 AM   
gittarpikk



Posts: 78
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Maryville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Ok... heres a good question about vr goggles

I would think that f flying vr goggles (or something similar) that unless you had an autopilot restricting aileron roll to small smooth movements that it would create a "water in fishbowl-swished around) kind of image...whereas watching the monitor one would see that same effect , but not as nausiating I would think, as goggles full of swishing images...maybe you guys with vid goggles can give me some input on this effect. I think it would be super cool to fly by goggles...but after brainstorming comparisons, I think maybe the lcd monitor of say a polaroid portable dvd player would be the ticket...

_____________________________

AMA77225 (yep one of the OLD ones)
Who cares what his name is?! but ask him what kind of radio wags the tail like that!

(in reply to Don41)
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RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/4/2007 4:54:48 AM   
JMSTECH



Posts: 220
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Duncan, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Yes it has been done.. artificial horizon but kind of stuff really is just show. In reality the artificial horizon only gets in your way and will annoy you eventually. I know I thought it would be cool but later thought, why don't I just rely on the return video signal like mountain, sea etc to find out out if I'm flying level or not. Besides the artificial horizon available to us suffers slight time delay and is really not something to truly rely on.

(in reply to Don41)
       Post #: 13

RE: Flying model via live video feed to HD LCD.. - 10/4/2007 5:31:38 AM   
Don41



Posts: 413
Joined: 9/4/2006
From: El Dorado, CA, USA
Status: offline 		When I took my first full scale lessons back in the 60s the instructor had me pay attention to the horizon, not the instrument but once you lose sight of the horizon and ground you can develop a dangerous spiral.

I'll bow to your experience but still,,, can't you get into a situation fairly quickly where you lose the horizon or do you learn to avoid that thru careful maneuvering? Will your plane right itself if you go hands off?

(in reply to JMSTECH)