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Beginners need a chance too! - 2/27/2002 7:23:46 AM   
Bmx2996


 

Posts: 60
Joined: 2/14/2002
From: MI
Status: offline 		Hi im 16 and ive been flying for a few years......at first when i started off i bought a trainer and asked somebody to look over it for me....
It took me a week to get somebody to look over it at my flying feild. Once they did (which they did a good job) i didnt even fly that day because everybody just kept saying "he'll take you up"
when i asked somebody...they just wanted to fly their planes.
The next weekend i finnaly got somebody to take me up....he took me up twice the whole day! how was i supposed to learn at that rate?


when i was training , the most Ive
went up was 4 times in like a 5 hour period.
Its a good thing i was a FAST learner..Soon i just got fed up with all the people who didnt want to take time and train the ONLY kid in the club, so i just got up some guts and did it myself,,,,your probally thinking i crahsed it , but no.
I did perfect.. mostly by myself i tought myself to fly

now i am flying all kinds of planes, Warbird to Funflys, .......Im doin it.

i just want to touch some peoples hearts and let them take in some kid under your wing who wants to fly , That looks
up to the local people at the feild....i know you may not like training people but some day they might be training your grandsons son...
you never know.

The hobby might die if you dont help out the next generation.


-sincerely,
NICK

< Message edited by Plane Insane-RCU -- Feb 27 2002 5:52AM >
       Post #: 1

Beginners need a chance too! - 2/27/2002 9:04:44 AM   
Grumpy Monkey



Posts: 439
Joined: 2/12/2002
From: manville, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Unfortunately BMX2996... There are people like that at fields that are trainers but cant find the time to help anyone but themselves. Stay away from them! But fortunately, there are people out there who thrive on helping people get into the sport. Although my field has a few of the arrogant types, we are also blessed with many more who are the exact opposite! These are the guys that greet EVERYONE who shows up to watch or learn, young or old, white black, green, purple and everyone in between. These guys are the rolemodels of the field and the sport in whole, and are what everyone should strive to be. During the spring and summer when the days are longer, these guys come out to the field with no plane of their own and only a buddybox. They come specifically for trainer night to help new pilots who want to learn to fly. It used to be anyone could come out on trainer night, but the aformentioned boneheads came out as well and after causing a crash from buzzing the runway while Newbs were trying to learn, everyone got banned from trainer night EXCEPT trainees. (You would think the chipholders would take a hint, but even after an incident they are to ignorant to realize that they have done something wrong) Trainer nite is a big success and my hats off to those guys who devote their time and knowledge to further the interest in this hobby to people who want to learn.
Great job to all the trainers everywhere!

Warren

< Message edited by Plane Insane-RCU -- Feb 27 2002 5:53AM >

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 2

Beginners need a chance too! - 2/27/2002 8:15:32 PM   
glowplug



Posts: 1862
Joined: 2/2/2002
From: Weirton, WV, USA
Status: offline 		BMX, it's really unfortunate that you had that experience. You're absolutely right, kids need to be brought into this hobby to keep it going strong. When I see a kid at the field I always try to welcome them, even though I don't feel comfortable enough yet with my own flying abilities to help them fly. I do look forward to the day that I am able to help them, or any newbe, fly. When I was a kid I used to see planes from a local club set up at the mall and I was always fascinated by them.....but I never got into the hobby because my dad didn't have the money to spend on it. It's good to be living out childhood fantasies now!!

Mike

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 3

Giving back to the hobby - 2/27/2002 9:26:26 PM   
Dugster



Posts: 522
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Apache Junction, AZ, USA
Status: online 		While I agree with you guys for the most part, but you seem to be targeting a particular age group as the culprit. As I've said here at RCU in other threads- Old Fart Syndrome (OFS) is an attitude not a function of age. I've seen 20 year olds that have all the symptoms of advanced OFS and I've seen 70 year youngs gladly help any newbie in sight. Judge each person as an individual, don't profile them by age.

My belief is that you get out of the hobby exactly what you put in. I received a lot of really great help when I was starting out. I feel that it's my obligation to repay that initial help by passing it on to another new person. While I'm not a qualified flight instructor yet, I can and do help with building, setup, break in, tuning, radio checks, etc.

So while I hear you, I also hope that you are also willing to give back to the hobby as I do.

_____________________________

Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but he usually manages to pick himself up, walk over it, and carry on.

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 4

Beginners need a chance too! - 2/27/2002 10:32:19 PM   
Grumpy Monkey



Posts: 439
Joined: 2/12/2002
From: manville, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Your right Dugster, OFS is an attitude problem, not age related. The ignorant bunch at our field range from 16 to 60, with most being in the middle. Its sad that a lot of newcomers see the arrogant(ignorant) flyers and want to emulate them, so right off the bat, they have the worst rolemodel there is at the field. ATTN newcomers...find someone who is patient, knows the club rules and AMA rules, and follows them. Someone who will teach you one step at a time. If your not happy with an instructor at the field or uncomfortable with the way he teaches talk to him about it or find someone else. Get a copy of the club rules and AMA rules and learn them. You will bring a lot more respect to yourself in the long run. The guys who hover over the runway and constantly do high speed low passes over the runway and are generally selfish with their time and knowledge are not worth their weight in cow dung and are not well respeted by a lot of people. Just go out of your way once to lend a hand to someone who needs it, be it a tool, advise or anything at all and you will have gained respect and a friend. Sorry for the long posts, OFS attitudes really pi$$ me off.

Warren

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 5

Beginners need a chance too! - 2/28/2002 12:00:03 AM   
stevezero



Posts: 813
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		You couldnt be any more correct guys. We make it a point to talk to people who come by and spectate, and currently have at least 7 people that are currently being trained, and 10 that started, trained and soloed in the past year. We try to give the trainees some extra room, specially when its takeoff and landing instruction, and be very supportive when the occasional 64 point landing occurs. I mean, who didnt bounce one a few times while learning to land, its part of the game. And the support doesn't stop when they solo, because IMHO that is when they need it the most. Amazing how you can go from reallllly high from soloing for a couple of weeks, and splattering your plane because you froze mentally, or tried flying in a lil more wind for the first time. Confidence is shot, thats when you have the most pilot turnover, guys whos first plane doesnt make it long past soloing. That's when the experienced guys, need to reassure the person that everyone has done it, and if they havent, they are lying :-).


Warbird Fanatic, I think the thing that impressed me the most when I was at the Joe Nall event last year, was the fact that Quique Somenzini, Matt Chapman, and Yuri Haguchi (IMAC champ this past year I think), would talk, and more importantly LISTEN, and interact with people when they werent flying. I saw sooo many instances of the exact opposite there though, where guys would be jockeying for position to hover over the runway, yell at each other, and act like thier poop didnt stink. I will admit, that it takes alot of nads to hang a $6000+ bird on its prop and touch the rudder in front of a couple thousand people, but you are not walking on water.


Attitudes are contagious, make sure you catch a good one!!!!

Steve

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 6

Beginners need a chance too! - 2/28/2002 12:14:37 AM   
bkf



Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/5/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I sorry to hear about this. At out club we have many younger pilots who get trained. They got a 12 year old up and flying better then his father. You would get your fill of training flights there as im sure in many other clubs. Bkf

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 7

Beginners need a chance too! - 2/28/2002 11:52:09 AM   
shmo46


 

Posts: 418
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: Tucson
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear this complaint, unfortuantly it isn't the first time.

My club has designated trainers, just became one myself. Not sure if this is mandated practice, but the number of designated trainers apears to be limited here. Of 80 members there are three that are authorized to take folks off the street for joy rides, and only three or four designated teachers like me who can teach AMA members. i know for sure the number of the off-the- street authorized teachers is limited, but maybe AMA limits the number of regular teachers as well? I am not sure of the details but i was told i had to be put on a list to be an instructor. If this a common practice, or AMA reg, this is certainly a big part of the problem. A beginer may be looking at a field full of able teachers, but in fact there may be few or none actually there any particular day. Can someone in the know confirm?

From a teachers perspective, i have to say i am quite sure your inability to get flight time has nothing to do with do with age. The greatest satisfaction you get from being a teacher is seeing progress. I don't want to discorage older flyers, but the fact is younger folks tend to learn much faster than the older ones. It is not uncommon to have an older student struggling after a year of flying, while a younger student tends to be solo qualified in only a few weeks. much more satisfaction per hour invested.

Anyway i am glad you didn't give up, and welcome to the greatest sport ever invented!

Shmo

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 8

I CAN RELATE TO THAT "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" - 2/28/2002 7:48:17 PM   
nedyob


 

Posts: 1253
Joined: 2/5/2002
From: NORTHWOOD, IA, USA
Status: offline 		HELLO ALL YOU BEGINNERS OUT THERE,
I STARTED OUT IN RC BACK IN 1989 WITH JOINING MY LOCAL CLUB.I PAID MY CLUB DEWS, AND BOUGHT MY 1ST TRAINER.I STARTED WITH A CLUB INTRUCTOR AND HE GOT MY TRIANER TRIMMED OUT.I FLEW MAYBE 4 TIMES, AFTER MY INSTRUCTOR HURT HIS BACK AND WAS GROUNDED FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR.THE OTHER INSTRUCTORS IN THE CLUB WERE USUALLY TO BUSY OR ALWAYS HAD A REASON TO NOT INSTRUCT.SINCE THAT DAY I'VE GONE TO TWO FLIGHT SCHOOLS AND THATS WHERE I BASICLY LEARNED TO FLY.I WAS TOLD BY MY FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR THAT SOME CLUB'S JUST WANT YOUR MONEY,AND DONT WANNA TEACH YOU.SOME WANNA TEACH YOU BUT FOR SOME REASON THEY ARE OVERWELMED WITH EVERYBODY WANTING HELP.THEN THERE ARE THOSE WHO AREA DEDICATED TO THERE CRAFT.TEACING PEOPLE HOW TO FLY.NOW AFTER SEVEN YEARS OF FLYING ON MY OWN, IM NOT INTIMIDATED BY THE MORE EXPIRIENCED FLYERS.I GUESS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT. "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR." SORTA SPEAK.I REALIZE SOME CANT AFORD TO GO TO FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOL,BUT THINK ABOUT IT.THOSE TYPES OF INSTRUCTORS ARE DEDICATED TO WHAT THEY KNOW BEST AND THAT IS FLIGHT TRAINING.
AND MY I SAY....THANK YOU MR.SCOTT,YOUR EFFORTS HAVE NOT BEEN FORGOTTEN & NEVER WILL BE.
NEDYOB

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 9

Beginners need a chance too! - 3/1/2002 10:02:05 AM   
sideshow



Posts: 2529
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Status: offline 		BMX, I am sorry to hear about your situation...but there is a silver lining. There is a lot to be said about doin' it yourself. Our club has the opposite syndrome. You CANNOT train at our club unless it is with a club instructor. All people must have an "officer observed" checkride before they are allowed to fly without an instructor. ALL instruction must be on a buddy box, blah, blah, blah, blah. We have had guys in the training program for almost a YEAR!

I used to think I needed another person to fly my new planes first....until that person wasn't able to make it......and the chief instructor refused to take it up for it's first flight (said "no" out of spite). Then I did it myself. It's not that big of a deal. I wish we had more independant individuals like you. You probably have some cool airplanes....other than trainers. We need more of that. I know this turned into a rant....I apologize. I'll fly with you anytime BMX. We'll have some fun.


Bob

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 10

Teach myself - 3/2/2002 5:04:58 AM   
Bmx2996


 

Posts: 60
Joined: 2/14/2002
From: MI
Status: offline 		like in the post above....

I bet there would be alot more people in the hobby if people were a little more confident...
I tought myself and it was 10 times easier than i thought. dont over react .(with a few hours with an instructor is reccomended)
The night before i went out i just practiced on my free FMS r/c simulator, Checked over my plane, made final adjustments.

Then when i got at the feild i kept a positive mind and practiced in my mind about the controls and what they did ,then i set my all my controll throws where it would suit my abilitys......

then i taxied out, gave full throttle, up elevator and i was up...i was actually flying, i was prepared mentally and phisicly....i cleared my head and promised to be calm and not over react.
i flew around alittle bit and didnt try any aerobatics, just the basics.
then i just did that every weekend and soon i was up for my checkride at my local club,,,,i suprised everybody at how good i was

now i am flying sport, aerobatic, sea, and fun fly planes!
thanks to myself


(im not saying for begginers to just go ahead and do it their selves, if you have a willing instructor
thanks
-nick

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 11

Beginners need a chance too! - 3/2/2002 9:40:04 AM   
shmo46


 

Posts: 418
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: Tucson
Status: offline 		Bravo BMX!

An instructor can get you going on the right foot, offer some guidance, maybe rescue your plane a few times to get you started, but ultimately to get the job finished, you do have to make it happen yourself.

Had a great guy for an instructor who checked out my plane, and helped me thru a few flights (buddy box). I was horrible at first, so I practiced a little every day on a simulator to learn the sticks. A couple weeks later, My instructor told me that when he felt he was ready to learn to land he came to the club when no one was there and just took off, and practiced aproaches untill he was ready to land ( or forced to). Not sure if he really intended for me to do the same, but i did. Showed up early the next morning. I was scared half to death as i taxied out, but after a few minutes of practicing lower and slower with each pass, it just seemed like nothing to let it settle to the ground. I missed the runway by 15 feet, but it rolled on the dirt just fine, no harm done.

I ended up refuleing and went up a few times more before anyone else showed up. Got solo qualified the same day.


Total time: 4 weekends.

Good fortune cookie: The most reliable way to predict the future is to create it.

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 12

Learning on your own can be expensive - 3/3/2002 9:13:50 AM   
mrtim-RCU



Posts: 20
Joined: 2/3/2002
From: Eastern Kentucky
Status: offline 		You should always seek the help of an experienced pilot before attempting it on your own, if for nothing else, at least to get the plane set up properly.

I have trained several people to fly, nothing is more discouraging to me as an instructor than a teenager dropping out of the hobby simply because his interests changed, (dating, cars, parties, etc...) and most of the time this is the reason people shy away from instructing young people. they feel like they are wasting thier time. Hopefully the seed had been planted well enough to have them return to the hobby when they get more settled.

I still love to teach new people to fly, I enjoy flying my own planes too, when a student complains that I only took him up 4 times in one day I think they are the one being selfish, not the instructor. I rarely get to fly my own plane 4 times in a day. Also as an instructor one has to spend most of thier time going over somebody elses airplane, and admit it, how often does a raw beginner get everything right on a plane?

The AMA limits our club to 3 intro pilots for the whole club, I think we can have as many instructors as we want, but out of an entire club I would only recommend a few as instructors. Some cant be there as often as they would like, some have other things to do as club officers.


I like the Idea of having a trainer night, I think I will try to implement that into our club schedule. Please don't get me wrong, I think the OFS is a bad deal too, but most have either had bad experiences in training someone or are just too lazy and selfish to do anything.

I will continue to help anybody that asks for it at our club, but dont be hard on an instructor because he can only squeeze in a few training sessions in a day, he has to have his time too. Dont judge an instructor until you get good enough to teach someone yourself, you are in for a treat.

(in reply to Bmx2996)
       Post #: 13

heres alittle good news! - 3/3/2002 7:33:50 PM   
rumble2


 

Posts: 75
Joined: 12/14/2001
From: tigerton, WI, USA
Status: offline 		our club is fortunate to have a very experienced flyer who through the years has taught+helped many learn to fly+fix. i on MANY occasions have seen jim come to the field. ready for a full day of flying and never got HIS planes out. this is because he ended up helping+teaching a new flyer. this has happened many many times!------- this last summer i too had a few occasions to help out on the buddy box with some new flyers {both young+old}. i didn't get in much flying of my own either. {i just remember when i was in there shoes and the unselfishness of some one who helped me and many others}.

(in reply to Bmx2996)