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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Best Of Both Worlds
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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/22/2003 9:06:25 AM   
robski


 

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Joined: 8/19/2002
From: GRANITE CITY, IL, USA
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I LIKE TO RUN A CASTER SYNTHETIC 50/50 MIX!!!! my question is can someone give me a simple answer as to how meany oz. of oil to aid to raise % of oil content 1 % per gal.,or vise versa ? i have always added 1 to 1 1/2 oz of each to a gal. of 18%BYRONS but some of my smaller 4 strokes don't seem to like it. any imput will be helpfull thanks rob

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ski
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Fuel Mixing Calculator - 3/22/2003 7:46:59 PM   
Francis Fernand



Posts: 88
Joined: 11/11/2002
From: Santo Domingo, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
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Try the "Fuel mixing in model engines" in the page http://www.rcboats.com/past.htm

Attachments
Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.zip


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Francis Fdez

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/22/2003 11:50:47 PM   
robski


 

Posts: 24
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From: GRANITE CITY, IL, USA
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i coulnt get the program to download.....so,with beers,i came up with ,thru advanced calculation on the back of a denny's napkin,.....approximately 4 to 5 oz's of oil to my byrons 16% ......[15% nitro]....is this right?.........will this bring me up to around 20%??????....i figure there must be somebody out there Way better at math than me and my buddies....lol.....thanks alot....!!!!!

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ski

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/23/2003 4:55:18 PM   
N1EDM-RCU



Posts: 89
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Brockton, MA,
Status: offline
This could be interesting to calculate.. Be back in a minute;

I created a spreadsheet that will do this...

If I get this right (and it took only 3 tries), if you have 15% nitro and 16% oil (69% methanol):

Adding 4 oz of castor will raise the total oil content to 18.55% and reduce the nitro content to 14.55%.

Adding 5 oz of castor oil will raise the total oil content to 19.16% oil & 14.44% nitro.

Adding 6.5 oz of castor oil will raise the total oil conte to 20.06% and reduce the nitro content to 14.28%

Maybe someone else can verify my calculations..

< Message edited by N1EDM-RCU -- Mar 23 2003 12:34PM >


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You can never have too much fuel, unless your plane is on fire.

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/23/2003 6:51:46 PM   
robski


 

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From: GRANITE CITY, IL, USA
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thanks N1EDM, was just wanting to make sure i was on the right track!!!!!! the help is appreciated ROB

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ski

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/24/2003 8:34:38 AM   
hauckf


 

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Joined: 3/1/2002
From: Decatur, AL, USA
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N1EDM's reply would be correct if the fuel you were using were Morgan or Wildcat or Coopers or just about any other brand besides Byrons. The fact is, Byrons percentage's for nitro and oil are PERECENT BY WEIGHT, not percent by volume as N1EDM has apparently assumed. Byrons 15% nitro, 16% oil fuel actually contains about 11.3% nitro and 13.9% oil by volume. In other words, if Morgan, Wildcat, Coopers, Powermaster, S&W, Red Max, etc. bottled that same exact fuel, it would be labeled "11.3% Nitro, 13.9% Oil", or thereabouts. To raise the oil percentages of that Byrons fuel to 20% oil BY VOLUME, you would have to add 9.8 fl. oz of castor. The resulting nitro would be about 10.5% by volume (but remember, you only had 11.3% to start with, not 15% as the label pretends). By the way, when engine manufacturers recommend "20% Oil", they mean 20% BY VOLUME, not 20% by weight (I've checked).

As to your question about how much oil to add to a gallon of fuel raise the oil percentage one percentage point (by volume), there is no single answer, as it depends on the starting percentage, but adding 1.6 fl. oz. for each percent you want to raise it will get you darn close!

I built a Microsoft Excel workbook containing several worksheets to do fuel calculations (% by weight to % by volume, adjusting percentages, mixing fuels, etc.). It is in Microsoft Excel. If you (or anyone else) would like a copy, E-mail me direct. You must have MS Excel to use the spreadsheet!

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/24/2003 9:30:24 AM   
robski


 

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From: GRANITE CITY, IL, USA
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THANKS HAUCKF, YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY IS VERY INTERESTING, and i will need to investigate,I DO HAVE SEVERAL FREINDS WHO ARE SOLD ON WILDCAT!I FOR 1 AM NOT ,I HAVE RUN BYRONS SENSE I STARTED FLY,N SOME YEARS AGO (more than i care to add up,hehee)and have never had any trouble so i will stick to use'n it!!!! on the plus side at least you didn't say anything bad about caster !!! ALL SMILES thanks rob

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ski

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/25/2003 1:34:42 AM   
Francis Fernand



Posts: 88
Joined: 11/11/2002
From: Santo Domingo, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
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http://www.rcboat.com/past.htm

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Francis Fdez

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/25/2003 6:25:43 AM   
N1EDM-RCU



Posts: 89
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From: Brockton, MA,
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That's really interesting.. I've never heard of oil or nitro being specified by weight instead of volume.

Why would they ever do it that way??

Where did you get this information??? My LHS doesn't carry Byrons. Is this specified on the label??

Bob

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You can never have too much fuel, unless your plane is on fire.

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/25/2003 9:38:13 AM   
hauckf


 

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From: Decatur, AL, USA
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N1EDM: My LHS doesn't carry Byron's either, so I don't know what the label says. I do know that the last time I checked (Nov. 2002) there was no mention of the fact that their percentages are by weight on their website. I e-mailed Byron and asked about it, and received a lengthy reply. They claim that they blend by weight, and therefore list the percentages by weight, because it results in a more consistant blend, due to the fact that each ingredient has a different coefficient of thermal expansion. "So by calculating the nitro % by weight, we are able to maintain a consistent blend year round . . . . . . (and) when you go from bottle to bottle with Byron Fuel, you will not be screwing around with your needle valve".

Their statement made me curious, so I did some research and came up with the coefficients of expansion for the ingredients in glow fuel and built a spread sheet to crunch the numbers. I started a thread in this forum with some of the results of the calculations a while back. Search this forum for "chemists" (part of the subject). Sorry, I don't know how to do a link!

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/26/2003 11:02:26 AM   
robski


 

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Joined: 8/19/2002
From: GRANITE CITY, IL, USA
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thanks for the help even though still a little confusing,used the 5.5oz. per gal .and new ys63 in gp fokker ran perfect!!!!! just didn't want to run new engine lean on oil or cough on first few flights! thanks again ROB

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ski

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/27/2003 8:54:52 PM   
axememan


 

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Joined: 2/24/2003
From: edwardsville,ill
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i am a byrons fuel user from way back also,always loved it cause it was so consistant!but i am confused as to the engine manufacturer's saying 20 % oil content is their recommendation and then to let a company put out fuel that would possibly damage their product and have them not [engine guys] not say anything,or put out an alert like "warning ,do not use byrons or it will void your warranty" i havent burnt any thing up by using byrons.i do always add extra lube into my gallons of 16% oil byrons[ a fat 5 oz's] and try not to run to lean.have i been hurting my engines all these years?

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Best Of Both Worlds - 3/28/2003 3:09:26 AM   
hauckf


 

Posts: 190
Joined: 3/1/2002
From: Decatur, AL, USA
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Why the engine manufacturers recommend 20% oil is a good question, one that could best be answered by them. Maybe they are just covering their butts; 20% oil will probably offer more protection against lean runs, low quality oil, etc. than any lesser amount, and will help keep their warranty costs down. If you are adding 5 fl. oz. of extra oil to a gallon of Byron's 16% oil, you are bumping that 16% (by weight) up to about 17% by volume anyway. (Just to give you a comparison, Morgan fuels also contain 17% oil by volume.)

Are you damaging your engines by using Byron's fuel? Well, there seem to be a lot of satisfied Byron's users out there, but who knows! If what you are using works for you, I would say don't worry, be happy, and go flying!

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