Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs.  
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> A123Racing Support >> Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs.
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Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 10/11/2007 4:26:51 PM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		If you want full details then please use this link:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8241916&postcount=1

I will post a few attachments here on RC U for those who just hate to leave here.

Ultra Min Stick with Hacker 30/16 ,APC 13X6.5E and 3S A123 ,8 min. flights and 5 1/5 min. average charge times. Over 140 cycles on pack and no change in performance. Average charge amps. 18.5 as calcultaed . 1.7 Ah per flight / 5.5 min. charge times.

Charles

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< Message edited by everydayflyer -- 10/11/2007 4:42:59 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 10/11/2007 4:33:50 PM   
guver


 

Posts: 8091
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: LaGrange, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Here's what I think is nice: Chargeing in no time flat does not encourage "unattended chargeing" besides being a time saver.

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 2

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 10/29/2007 1:35:52 AM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		188 flights ( 167 ZiP charges) on the 3S A123 pack and still going strong.

(in reply to guver)
       Post #: 3

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 11/7/2007 2:11:24 AM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Ziping right along.


Charles

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(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 4

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 11/7/2007 9:04:38 PM   
guver


 

Posts: 8091
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: LaGrange, OH, USA
Status: offline 		How about trying to ramp up the initial charging speed so the average is higher?

Higher at start, maybe lower at finish. A very smooth, but quick ramp up and down according to capacity might be blistering fast , yet not heat the battery any more.

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 5

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 11/8/2007 3:55:36 PM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		That would require a lot more than a simple length of wire being used as a means to limit charging rate. The whole idea here is to be able to use a charger which cost next to nothing.

How fast do you want? IMO a 5 1/5 to 6 1/2 minute charge is plenty fast and the batteries do not get more than slightly warm, much cooler than during the discharge.
Charles

(in reply to guver)
       Post #: 6

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 11/9/2007 1:00:27 AM   
guver


 

Posts: 8091
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: LaGrange, OH, USA
Status: offline 		No specific time in mind, it is nice to know the practical limit though. 5 minutes is a long time if you're "waiting"

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 7

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/18/2007 8:08:24 PM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		249 flight and a 6% capacity lose from flight #40 and Dsch # 251.

In fact it is really closer to 260 discharges as I did not count any of the prior graphed discharges.


Charles

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(in reply to guver)
       Post #: 8

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/18/2007 8:50:20 PM   
coro_sk


 

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: , SLOVAKIA
Status: offline 		I highly appreciate Your work. It encourages me to stop being afraid of high current charges...
I am surprised that green voltage line is a bit higher (voltage) than red. Is it repeatable or caused by just an ocassional difference in something? (e.g. different current, temperature or something like that) ?

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 9

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/18/2007 10:12:16 PM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: coro_sk

I highly appreciate Your work. It encourages me to stop being afraid of high current charges...
I am surprised that green voltage line is a bit higher (voltage) than red. Is it repeatable or caused by just an ocassional difference in something? (e.g. different current, temperature or something like that) ?

Full details in post at RC Groups but short answer is Dsch 250 was one day after being Zip charged at field and Dsch 251 was following recharge on Balance Pro HP .
pack was also warmer following discharge ,recharge and second discharge.


Snip from RC Groups;
quote:


Dsch # 40 capacity 2290 mAh
Dsch # 68 capacity 2270 mAh


2150/2290=93.8% or a 6.2% capacity lose.



Charles

< Message edited by everydayflyer -- 12/18/2007 10:14:55 PM >

(in reply to coro_sk)
       Post #: 10

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/18/2007 10:38:22 PM   
coro_sk


 

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: , SLOVAKIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: everydayflyer

Full details in post at RC Groups but short answer is Dsch 250 was one day after being Zip charged at field and Dsch 251 was following recharge on Balance Pro HP .
pack was also warmer following discharge ,recharge and second discharge.


Snip from RC Groups;
quote:


Dsch # 40 capacity 2290 mAh
Dsch # 68 capacity 2270 mAh


2150/2290=93.8% or a 6.2% capacity lose.



Charles

Thank You very much,
I mistakenly did not notice that Dsch 251 was right after charge. That explains all, of course.
So, it says, that for ordinary use, user can drive this cells hard also during charge, and charge them at any power his charger is capable. Especially, occasional flyer like me - I will grow much older until I will fly single pack 250 times. :-)
This cells are simply great. I also hope that smaller A123 M1A 1100mAh ones, will behave the same way.

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 11

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/25/2007 3:03:22 PM   
Antique



Posts: 580
Joined: 7/14/2002
From: Irvine, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Pardon my ignorence but what is a "ZIP" charge ?

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 12

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/25/2007 3:21:36 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 2828
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		No need to pardon your ignorance. People that coin new terms should explain what they mean.

(in reply to Antique)
       Post #: 13

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/25/2007 4:29:29 PM   
everydayflyer



Posts: 854
Joined: 8/21/2005
From: Buchanan, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Well Zip charging is not really a new term in fact it is so old that it comes under the term.

All things old are new again.

To break it down. Zip line , lamp cord, two conductor flat extension cords are all one in the same.

Way back in the early days many of us used different lengths / gauges of this wire to drop the available current from a single cell Pb 2 volt battery to light a 1.5 volt glow plug and years later to charge Nicad packs for our R/C cars,trucks,boats and even a very few of us for electric power airplanes.
Believe it or not once upon a time in order to fly / run R/C you had to build your own equipment.


The very first post in this Thread contains this link:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8241916&postcount=1

which i advised to be used.

As I post here on RC U , RC Groups and WattsFlyer it is very time consuming to post complete deatils to three seperate boards.

Not to step on to many toes but I find that many only read the last one or two post and very often never bother to even read the OP. I also find that many never bother to use a link which has been provided.


Charles

< Message edited by everydayflyer -- 12/25/2007 4:35:32 PM >

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 14

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/26/2007 3:04:37 AM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 2828
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Not to step on any toes but I followed your link several times and I felt I was stepping in the middle of a lot of confused details. Zip cord was a name applied to extention cord by some seller some time ago. He never bothered to specify what he meant. Now You are using the term to describe a method of charging apparently using lamp cord. But you don't say how long or what size wire to use. Who knows what zip cord is?
Is it any wonder others don't know what you are talking about?
Actually the zip (Lamp) cord I have used is a relatively low resistance wire. It needs to be to get a large current to the lamp without too much waste of power.
If you need resistance in the line you might be better off using chromel-alumal wire - Thermocouple wire. I think it can be had at Radio Shack.

< Message edited by dirtybird -- 12/26/2007 3:14:05 AM >

(in reply to everydayflyer)
       Post #: 15

RE: Zip (Speed) charging 3S packs. - 12/26/2007 1:59:00 PM