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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 1:38 PM   
Socomon



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Status: online 		Thanks again Mike.

Looks like you did a nice tidy job of it. That is one thing that I have noticed with jets. Everyone is much more maticulous about wire/air/fuel installation and routing than they are in any other type of planes I have seen. I am embarassed in comparison by the 'bowl of spaghetti' found in some of my airplanes. I guess I will have to step it up a notch.

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 2:08 PM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Don't worry about that, I am equally guilty of spaghetti in my prop airframes, and then you think about it for a little while and wonder why, when our turbines are less prone to vibration than anything with a prop, why do I take more care, it can only be because of the money invested that I take the time and trouble to do the installation properly, all of my prop airframes are now the subject of inspection and a tidy up, its only the loose cables that need a tidy as all of them had protection if passing through a bulkhead and clips on plugs and that sort of thing, I have always made my own extension leads so they are the correct leanth and don't have to be wound up and stuffed somewhere, and then I come to jets and am told to have at least 2M of brake pipe wound up in the bottom of the fus so that it will work properly, sometimes you can't win. LOL

Mike

< Message edited by BaldEagel -- 6/27/2009 8:51 AM >

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 7:06 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		BaldEagle and all,

I am fitting the top hatch to the top of the Elan. There is a former inside the rear of the hatch that you cut out to fit around the top of the Turbine, in my case a P-80. How close are you getting that hatch to fit accross the top of the Turbine?
It seems to me that if it is real close that there will not be enough air flow accross the top of the Turbine behind the former.

How have you fit yours?

I am getting real close to finishing up and I am getting real excited.

Yesterday a friend let me fly his Baby Boomerang. Being this was the first jet I have flown I was very impressed. He also has a new Elan which I have seen him fly. He was going to let me fly it but on his landing the axel on the right strut pulled out, the wheel came off and the gear broke. So I missed out on flying the Elan.

Any information on the former inside the hatch will be appreciated.

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 7:20 PM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		As long as it has clearance it will be OK, the amount of air that is sucked in at the rear will keep the turbine at optimum temp it does not need a lot of air over the top.

The thing to be carefull of is the top hatch fixing, I needed a 1/4" ply spacer between the two to stop the hatch from flexing when tightened down, it also gives you something hard to bolt down against.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 9:03 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		You have been flying yours and the temps have not been a problem. How much clearence did you wind up with on yours?

Thanks,
Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 10:46 PM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		I would say that I have about 1/4" clearance over the top of my P80 with a little bit more around the Kero start plug, now that I have installed a P120SX the Kero plug is not there, so a little bit more clearance is available, lets not forgett that the air will accelerate through a smaller opening, the amount of air that can go in is that which the inlets can supply, the turbine will take as much as it needs for combustion the rest will go around the outside above or below no matter how much clearance there is.

Don't forgett I am in the Uk and our temps are a little below those of most of the US below Washington, but not as low as the Netherlands. LOL

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/26/2009 11:14 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		I would say you are quite a bit cooler then Tucson AZ. Today we are at 103 degrees F. Plus we are at 3000 ft above sea level. Density altitude can get up there quick. Hard on prop planes but worse on a jet.

We have to start flying around 7 am. and are finished flying by 10:30. This is from the end of May to Oct. The rest of the year the flying weather is almost perfect.

!/4" sounds like what I will do.

Thanks,
Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/27/2009 9:02 AM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Stan

I don't think the clearance is critical, just ensure you have sufficient clearance to fit the canopy and not touch the turbine, the position of the former is over the cool part of the turbine which also makes this non critical, but do remember what I have posted about the canopy bolt and the clearance between it and the fus, the T nut inside the fus is Hysoled so it will not come off again???? and the bolt in the canopy has a lock nut on it so it will not be lost, a piece of ply has been drilled out to give clearance to the lock nut and epoxied into the canopy, I can hard tighten my canopy bolt without fear of the T nut comming out or the canopy comming off, I think its worth doing.

If I remember correctly I think I also had to Hysol a small ply packing piece under the T nut to prevent it protuding above the horizontal fus piece, not very well explained, but I am sure you know what I mean.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/27/2009 2:52 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		Mike,

I do understand what you have said, good information.

Last night I gave 3 coats of BVM heat paint to the fuse Turbine outlet, inside the rear of the hatch, and the floor below the hot part of the Turbine. I don't know if it is really necessary, but It can't hurt especially at the rear of the fuse Turbine outlet.

There is another fellow at our field that bought a used Elan with a Wren Turbine. He has been having a problem with the engine having hot starts. He has burnt up 3 horizontal stabs so far. Everyone tells him to send it back to the factory to have it checked out. He refuses to do so.
I have witnessed one of those tail fires. Scary to watch.
I have been thinking about putting some high temp foil on the bottom of the stab on mine.
I wonder if a lot of Boomerang flyer's do?

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/27/2009 4:19 PM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		I don't know enough about Wrenns to comment, but the hot starts on a Kero start JetCat are caused by excess fuel in the turbine prior to ignition, my new 120SX was flaming, not a tailpipe fire, on start up until I reduced the pump start voltage down to 0.100, it was initially set at 0.325 that has cured the flaming, but to be double sure I fill the tank and start the turbine prior to putting the tailplane on the booms, then top up the tank and fly all day with no further problem, incidently I never had a hot start or flame from my P80 Kero start. Perhaps on the Wrenn which is Butane start I think, he may need to turn the supply valve down a bit, only a guess on my part.

Mike

EDIT: to add link to the Wrenn support forum on RCMF: http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php/board,146.0.html

< Message edited by BaldEagel -- 6/27/2009 4:53 PM >

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/27/2009 5:11 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		My P-80 is a Butane start. It was test run by Bob Wilcox as all new Jetcats are here in the USA. I had not planned to remove the horizontal stab for transporting to the flying field. If I did I would certainly do what you do until I became comfortable with the Turbine.

In lining up the hatch cover with the fuse for drilling I notice there is a 1/16-1/8 gap at the rear of the hatch where it meets the fuse. Here I was all concerned about the gap to the engine on the former inside the hatch cover and the hatch will be leaking air all over.
I guess because this is my first jet I want everything to be perfect, but you know Mike this is not a perfect world

I know it will fly great regardless.

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/27/2009 5:26 PM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Your right its not a perfect world, but I guarantee the Elan is about as perfect a first jet you can get, you don't have to worry about it flying it just does, looking back in my notes mine required 4 beeps of elevator and 2 of aileron and that was it, I have been playing with the C of G since then and obviously the new 120SX has moved this back even further, it just gets better and better, took ten flights before I started to relax, now I just enjoy ever second of it, even if its sitting on the ground, flyings better though.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/28/2009 6:54 AM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi,

I agree about everyone having there own ideas. I have 2 questions. On my Sprint, it was recomended that the CG would be spot on by lifting both ends of the main carbon fiber tube. That worked out great. What about the Elan? Is it about the same? Also, on the Sprint I used all JR DS8611's except on the Elevator where I used a DS 8711. The 8611 has a torque of 220 oz @ 4.8v. The 8711 is rated at 347 oz of torque at 4.8v. I just got the Elan last week so would it be safe to say using the same combination servos on the Elan, even though it has a split elevator, will be fine or is the 8711 an over kill? Alan tells me using the same P-80 from the Sprint, the Elan is a little smoother and faster. The Boomerangs are not designed for 200 mph+ flights not do I need to go that fast.

Thanks for your help.

Doc...

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/28/2009 10:25 AM  1 votes
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Doc

1" to 1.5" in front of the front incidence pin with the canopy on, no wings or booms, UC down and full UAT No fuel in the tank.

On mine all servo's except flaps are Hitec 5625mg's flaps are 5645mg's and have proved OK even at over 180mph, I have never run out of authority on any surface, but I am using two 2 cell A123 batteries to power the Rx (6.6v) and servo's and a 3 cell A123 for the turbine ECU (9.9vots) specially modified ECU, dont try that with a standard JetCat ECU it will work for a while and then overheat and let out the magic smoke.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/28/2009 1:59 PM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

Thanks for the advice,

Doc...

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/29/2009 3:09 AM   
heliman.rusty


 

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Status: offline 		I know it's been gone over many times but here is how I set my steering servo up. I put my servo on the other side of the bulkhead as not to be in the way of gear

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/29/2009 6:22 PM   
cgroen



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Status: offline 		I was out flying my Elan (P160SX) the whole weekend (managed to burn 35 ltr's of kero), the temperatures was a bit high (at least for Denmark), around 25..27 deg C, and both my servo covers for the elevator was heated and "warped" a lot. I could still fly, but I will have to change both of them. A friend of mine had the exact same problem on his Sprint (P80SE powered).
There was a lot of wind, and my guess is that we did some taxi runs with the rear of the plane towards the wind....
Anyway, the oracover had no sign of heat, so I guess that the plastic the covers are made of, is very little "heat resistant" ?

Anyway, my Elan almost went to the moon

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/29/2009 7:41 PM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi,

I like what you did on this. Do you have other pictures showing the complete instalation? It looks like the round control arm is groved. Really cool.

Doc...

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/29/2009 8:00 PM   
digitech


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cgroen

I was out flying my Elan (P160SX) the whole weekend (managed to burn 35 ltr's of kero), the temperatures was a bit high (at least for Denmark), around 25..27 deg C, and both my servo covers for the elevator was heated and ''warped'' a lot. I could still fly, but I will have to change both of them. A friend of mine had the exact same problem on his Sprint (P80SE powered).
There was a lot of wind, and my guess is that we did some taxi runs with the rear of the plane towards the wind....
Anyway, the oracover had no sign of heat, so I guess that the plastic the covers are made of, is very little ''heat resistant'' ?

Anyway, my Elan almost went to the moon



next time ask me , i had a few extra here...
if you come to pampa,s i can also show you a full moon if you want

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/29/2009 8:03 PM   
cgroen



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Status: offline 		He he Sandor,
I think I will pass on the full moon
But, if you havn't already sent the next package to me, throw some of the servo covers in there too (for the elavators, there are different types, left/right types)

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 5:23 PM   
BaldEagel



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ORIGINAL: Henk Visser

I glued the wing incidence pins with BVM aeropoxy to get rid of the huge slob!
My horizontal stabilizer could be moved almost 8mm!
After glueing the pins there is almost no slob left! And it fly's even better than before


Henk

You are quite right the amount of slop that has developed in my incidence pins has now gone by gluing them in, good tip.

Thanks
Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 5:31 PM   
Henk Visser



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Status: offline 		Your welcome Mike that's what these forums are for!

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 5:32 PM   
turbinepeter


 

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After henk mentioned it, I also checked my incidence pins. They all had a little movement, and by the time the booms are attatched, the movement in the elevator was horendous!!!!

No wonder I had trimming issues. So i have also glued my pins in place, but not flown it since, so can,t comment on how it has improved trimming. But its got to help.

Regards



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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 8:24 PM   
heliman.rusty


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc...

Hi,

I like what you did on this. Do you have other pictures showing the complete instalation? It looks like the round control arm is groved. Really cool.

Doc...


I will take more pics later. that is the Hangar 9 pull pull wheel

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 8:35 PM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi,
I'm not sure you received my request from the other day so I'll try it again. I like what you did with the steering. What did you use for the round servo arm and is it grooved to except the metel steering cable? Any pictures would be helpfull. Thanks for your help.

Doc...

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