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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 8:55 PM   
heliman.rusty


 

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ORIGINAL: Doc...

Hi,
I'm not sure you received my request from the other day so I'll try it again. I like what you did with the steering. What did you use for the round servo arm and is it grooved to except the metel steering cable? Any pictures would be helpfull. Thanks for your help.

Doc...


Yes it has a groove for cable here is a link. they make them to fit most servos brands. It also has a rataining bolt
http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e1hangar9/e1accessories/e1radio/e1radio2.html


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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 6/30/2009 9:51 PM   
Doc...


 

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Works for me. Thanks,

Doc...[image]

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 1:58 AM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

Just received an email from Alan regarding my question about matching the Orange on the Elan. He said he didn't have a paint # we could match it with. Has anyone found or used an Orange that matches the Elan?

Thanks,

Doc...

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 4:59 AM   
heliman.rusty


 

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 5:46 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Everyone,

I just finished balancing my Elan.

Much to my surprise It balanced a hair tail heavy. I had to move the balance point back 1/8-3/16" in order for the airlane to balance level.

From what I have read on this thread most people wind up with a slightly nose heavy airplane on the initial balance.
I measured forward from the trailing edge of the wing 250MM, 9 15/16"..

I have two 2700 5 cell NMHD and one 2 cell 2500 lipo under the tank.
I did not fill the hopper tank and the gear was down as per the Elan manual. I know people have balanced it with the hopper tank full, that would certainly make the plane at my current balance point nose heavy.

Of course my air tanks were empty

Any comments are welcome.

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 6:00 PM   
BaldEagel



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The reason most ballance with the UAT full is that is the furtherst back the C of G will be in a landing situation, did you have your canopy on as well? as most of that is in front of the C of G.

I am actually thinking of getting rid of the UAT to help get the C of G further aft, as I can't move my batteries any further back, unless I put them under the turbine, not a good idea I think.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 6:16 PM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Stan,

I just got my Elan a few weeks ago and plan on it being my winter project but I have read many things about the CG on this thread. I can't advise you on what to do or where to start since I haven't reached that point but what I will tell you, after building the Sprint, is don't try to balance the Elan or any ship for that matter with the tank full. The wings should be off, the gear down, the canapy and pilot if there is one and the trutle deck along with all electronics should be on the ship. For many years I flew a little nose heavy. On my Sprint, I actually added some weight inside the nose gear compartment and it did make it a tad nose heavy. 2 clicks on the elev. and it was fine. When doing a roll, hardly any down elev was used. The Boomerang's are very forgiving and you should have no problem. Good luck,

Doc...

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 6:45 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		Mike and Doc,

I had canopy and everything that belongs on the airplane. Mike I knew about the UAT tank being full but I did not have any fuel handy at the time. I am sure it will make me a little nose heavy but that is okay for the first few flights.

Any idea on how much of a difference it will make on the CG?

Doc I don't believe I will go the route Of bal;ancing without the wings on.

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 7:33 PM   
BaldEagel



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After Doc said about ballancing without the wings on, I went to the manual and it shows the C of G without the wings, now is this poetic licence on the drawing? or are you supposed to ballance the airframe without the wings? unconventional, but so is measuring the ballance point from the TE, most of my composites are measured that way, but its strange.

As in my previous post without the booms, tail, or wings on, full UAT, empty tank wheels down and canopy on the ballance point I was advised is about 1" to 1.5" in front of the front incidence pin, now that is how I ballanced mine and it came out nose heavy, 250mm from the TE is also nose heavy, I have gradually moved my C of G back and still think its nose heavy, the only thing I have left to move or remove is the UAT, as I am using an Orbit clunk in the main tank, removing the UAT is an option.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 8:31 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		Mike,

I have been balancing model airplanes for years and it has never been suggested to me to balance that way. I like to see the airplane in its final configuration and balance from there.

I built and balanced a full size Christan Eagle and never removed anything to balance it. I never heard of such a thing.

There might be someone out there in order to save time and effort reconfigured the balance point without wings, boons, and stab, but I like doing it the old fashioned way.

I believe the picture in the manual was shown that way for simplicity, at least that was my interpetation.

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 8:44 PM   
BaldEagel



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I was not suggesting for one moment that the final way to ballance the Elan is without the bits and bobs on, but that its a good indication for when you are positioning your gear internally, I think I did not make that clear, every bird I have built over the years has always had its final ballance on a C of G jig with everything rigged and fitted.

The drawing in the manual shows the wings not on the plane if they meant to have the wings on would they no show a line comming out from either boom, I will send an e-mail to Alan and ask.

Mike

< Message edited by BaldEagel -- 7/1/2009 9:59 PM >

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 9:39 PM   
Countryboy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tucson

Mike,

I have been balancing model airplanes for years and it has never been suggested to me to balance that way. I like to see the airplane in its final configuration and balance from there.

I built and balanced a full size Christan Eagle and never removed anything to balance it. I never heard of such a thing.

There might be someone out there in order to save time and effort reconfigured the balance point without wings, boons, and stab, but I like doing it the old fashioned way.

I believe the picture in the manual was shown that way for simplicity, at least that was my interpetation.

Stan


Stan,

That is exactly the way I balanced mine. Balanced at 245mm with everything in place just as it would be in flight, gear down and UAT full with main tank empty. No lead needed!

As for batteries under the turbine, I had reservations about doing it but ended up mounting the ECU battery there anyway. I took precautions to insulate the battery from radiant heat and it does not seem to be a problem.


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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 10:07 PM   
tucson


 

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Sorry I came accross that way. I didn't believe you were telling me to balance without the wings, tail, and boom.

I believe Doc suggested that to me. Unfortunatly sometimes we get the wrong impression when people are typing.

I enjoy reading your posts, you are very imformative. You are also a couple of steps ahead of me on this project.

Hopefully by friday, but most probably early next week for the maiden.

I mixed crow in with my flaps, but am uncertain about the amount of up ailerons to use so I disconected them for the first few flights. Have you been using crow in yours?

Thanks,
Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 10:14 PM   
BaldEagel



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OK no big deal.

Yes I do use crow and in fact have increased it from the 0.75" in the manual to as much as I can get whilst still having some movement for aileron roll control, reason being that I wanted the Elan to come down when I put full flap in, it can float on a bit if you have the aprouch speed a little high. In the Uk we don't have the luxury of long paved runways, I fly off a sheep field that has been cut short for about 100ft and gets rolled occasionally so I need to land on the numbers as it where.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/1/2009 10:18 PM   
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Reply from Alan Cardash re the C of G.

Hi Mike,

The wings are missing to make it easy to get it all on the page.

Of course the model theoretically should be complete when the CG is taken.

Having said that, I don’t think the wings on or off would change the CG any worthwhile distance, so I usually check my own models either way and consider it the same.

All my Boomerang models have such a wide tolerance regarding the CG that it really doesn’t matter which way you regarded that drawing. I allow for a safe CG position in the manual. If it’s anywhere near close to the position given, it’ll be fine.

Kind Regards,

Alan,

www.Boomerangjets.com

There you have it check C of G with everything on and in the condition it would be in when landing, i.e. full UAT.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/2/2009 12:25 AM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the info Mike,

Off a 100 ft sheep field?

No room for error there. I have always found the smaller the runway the better my landings. You did say 100 ft? Do you have any pictures of your field? You will probably need a close up lens for your camera

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/2/2009 3:19 AM   
Doc...


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Stan,

Sorry about that. I just didn't include the booms and tail. You know the funny thing is in all the pattern and ducted fans I have balanced, yes, I balanced them dry but always with the wings on. The Sprint is the 1st ship that wanted it balanced w/o the wings. Go figure. I guess the best way I should have stated my orriginal thoughts was to say balance the ship with everything attached ready to fly less wings and fuel. As you can read, Alan feels there is a wide tolerance with the CG on his ships and in flying the Sprint, I can believe it.

C-ya,

Doc...

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/2/2009 4:40 AM   
tucson


 

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No problem. Alan seems to think it would make very little difference to leave the wings off. He should know. I still feel more comfortable balancing it as I will fly it.

A friend let me fly his baby boomerang last week and I really enjoyed it. Great flying airplane.

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/2/2009 7:45 AM   
BaldEagel



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ORIGINAL: tucson

Thanks for the info Mike,

Off a 100 ft sheep field?

No room for error there. I have always found the smaller the runway the better my landings. You did say 100 ft? Do you have any pictures of your field? You will probably need a close up lens for your camera

Stan



Oh Stan

I said a sheep field that had been cut short for 100ft, I do have an aerial shot somewhere, I will dig it out and post it.

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/2/2009 2:18 PM   
tucson


 

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Wfhen I lived in Colorado I used to fly models off of a high Mesa (7000 ft) That the Sheep herders would graze their Sheep off of at certain times of the year. We would enjoy watching them so much that sometimes we would forget to fly. You know the big sheep dogs guarding the sheep and the sheep herders on horseback. Some of our guys would give names to some of the Sheep they found attractive. Not me though, I am not really into sheep

Your picture shows a lot of sheep. All the rc guys must have a ball watching them also.

But seriously, you meant you cut a 100 foot swath in the field to take off and land didn't you?. That would still be like flying off of a carrier deck.

Makes our 700 by 80 ft paved paved runway sound like overkill. But you know we still have some guys complaining that we need a cross wind runway also.
Some people just don't appreciate what they have.

Stan


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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/3/2009 11:31 AM   
BaldEagel



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You will enjoy the Elan, with half flap I can take off in about 50ft and as long as I get the aprouch correct and land at the start of the patch I can stop before the end of the mown area, sooner if I can remember to put on the brakes. LOL

Next time I get to the field I will take a pic of the mown area in closeup, I have extended it to 100ft from what it was and still most of our members can't get on it, in fact if you look at the aerial photo you can see some hawthorn bushes on the left hand side, don't ask me how, but lots of our members will shred their airframes through the hawthorn on a regular basis, still it keeps their minds off what I am doing, did I tell you I am the only turbine flyer on our site, just got permission to fly it on a regular basis, I am sure it was not as bad as getting a turbine waiver as none of them knew what they where looking at, but flying in front of the committee was a bit nerve raking to say the least.

Mike

< Message edited by BaldEagel -- 7/4/2009 4:55 AM >

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/3/2009 1:30 PM   
tucson


 

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Status: offline 		Mike,

"Most of the members didn't know what they are looking at"

Not much different here in the US.

Out of a one million population for Tucson AZ there are maybe 3 Turbine flyers. In the winter months (the weather here in the winter is in the 60's and 70's) we get 3 or 4 more Snow Birds, (they leave the snow areas of the North).

Lately our FAA has been threatning to impose restrictions on Turbine flying. But because of our AMA they have given the policing of Turbine flying to them. The AMA is requiring the waiver.
We are lucky that the FAA has entrusted the AMA if it weren't for that I believe flying Jets here in the US would be a problem today.

Take Care,

Stan

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/4/2009 5:14 AM   
BaldEagel



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Similar here, the body that represents flyers in the UK (BMFA) are talking about a tubine certificate for us also, the problem is they can't seem to get a schedule together that will satisfy all the requirements and not be too stringent, In my opinion they have left this far to late to be enforceble, so many people fly turbines already to ask them to take a certificate after the event is not viable, we have this problem in our club, the BMFA have an "A" and "B" certificate which can be used as a early solo "A" and advanced "B" indication of ability, I can't get our club to enforce even the "A" let alone a new turbine certificate if it comes into being.

Meanwhile I will just keep flying and enjoying myself.

Must get back onto the thread subject matter.

One of my Olio's keeps twisting in the retract unit, this I put down to a bending of the trunnion in the retract, this has now been removed and reworked, I have Dreamworks retracts and Digitech Olio's, if you remember I broke both of the Dreamworks Olio's and replaced them with the Digitech, so far the replacements are holding up well, once I have the same amount of flights on the Digitech Olio's I will do a comparison of the two units.

Todd at Dreamworks did contact me and say he was sending me a replacement pair of Olio's, I know he has been away for a while, but have not received them as yet, when I do I will be able to do a direct comparison of the two units.

Mike

Mike

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/6/2009 9:40 PM   
heliman.rusty


 

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Status: offline 		So I maiden the Elan yesterday and she flies great and lands easy. Was impressed with the speed and control even at the higher speeds. the first take off for some reason it did'nt seem to want to rotate and take off. So a slight yank of up elevator and up and away. After that take off was a little nervous for that flight but after a few more flights much better. Ok so on my 3rd landing the left rear main folded back. was not a hard landing so I was puzzled. my elan weighs 23.275 lbs with a Jetcat P120 so not too heavy CG is within 1/16th of an inch. So anyway I just opened it up today and found the left rear main mount beam was not glued to the formers the one at the end and next one in. which caused the gear to fold I think. I hope I can repair the ribs and get the skin back over after repair. Anyone else have this problem? Or am I the lucky one. Even with this I do love this Jet hope to get flying again soon. If Not able to repair will have to wait till I get back to work. to buy another fuse. Also anyone know where to get the grey paint or what paint code it is?

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RE: Elan Has Arrived! - 7/6/2009 11:48 PM   
BaldEagel



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Mine has done the same, its a bit late in the Uk now (2345), but when I get into the workshop tomorrow I will post some pic of the inside and what I found, but for staters the one of the bearers has a knot in it where it has split and come apart, very little glue found on the ribs that it supposed to be glued to.

What retracts do you have on the Elan?

Mike

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