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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/28/2012 9:16 AM   
Weeso


 

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Status: offline 		Tuning the engins
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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/28/2012 4:28 PM   
jdhughen


 

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Status: offline 		"I guess I don't understand why modelers think four strokes sound more realistic."

Unfortunately your math doesn't add up to actual overall "sound" properties. In sound properties the overall engine "Sound" is the result of many things besides "exhaust pulses", a big one being RPM. another is the fact that with a 4 stroke there are 2 prop revolutions per "exhaust pulse". Added to that is the difference in prop noise. Then there is torque differences that allow the 4 stroke to produce the same thrust at a much lower RPM. This is why most observers describe a 4 stroke producing the same amount of thrust as a "purr" while a 2 stroke as a high pitched "whine". Now weather or not one appeals to you more than the other is a different question. But IMO the purr of an 7 cyclnder 4 stroke turning 2800 sounds nothing like a 2 stroke rev up to 10-12k

A ground based analogy would be the difference in sound properties of a 2 stroke Yamaha Ninja bike and a Harley. While we would all love to have mini Cyclone radials turning 2800 in our "model", that's not realistic either. so it's just a preference of which you feel sounds more realistic or pleasing in your WWII bomber, a ninja or a Harley

Just my $.02


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/28/2012 9:44 PM   
gregory.aldrich1


 

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Status: offline 		I have flown my B25 ten times. Unfortunately, because I was so absolutely busy this summer, I only had the chance to fly her last season. Anyway, a friend of mine has the same bird and we have met a few times to fly them together. He uses 2 stroke power and i use 4 stroke. So I have heard both in person. Besides that, I have obviously heard both in birds of other kind. I personally prefer the sound of the two Saito 82b's in mine, but his bird sounds cool too. I think I have always likes the four strokes and generally, that's what I put in most of my birds. I have some two stroke planes and I have had a gasser as well. They all sound cool complared to electrics, but then I have several of them as well. It's all about preference, but I have to say, the twin four strokes sound pretty cool popping off on the taxi ride out and when you run em up on the roll out, they really hum. Just sayin.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/29/2012 3:16 AM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		I've decided to go with OS 95v engines and 13x6x3 master airscrew props. Break in props will be 14x6, assuming I can use that big of a prop on the b-25.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/29/2012 4:58 AM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		The 14's will leave you without about 1.5" ground clearance, using the fixed gear and factory tire sizes.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/29/2012 5:33 AM   
jdhughen


 

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Status: offline 		If your using robart retracts with robostruts and land on grass you might have 14" prop tips dig in on anything but soft touch downs Depending.

My B-25 is about 3 years old now and I'm thinking of a partial rebuild getting new nacels and converting to 4 stroke gas. I currently have satio 72s and while they are sufficient, if the grass gets a little tall it take every inch of the runway to get her up. I'd like to go with the satio FG 14B gas which will give me a little more power. Is any one using the new electric robarts ? Is robart making a elec replacement for the B-25 ? I've never been a fan of air retracts as they are not very realistic motion and are pone to problems. I've tried electric retracts on some of my smaller planes and love them. What I want is a converion kit, not a total replacement. anyone seen this for the B-25 retracts?

Joel

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/29/2012 2:05 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		The electric conversion set should be available on Robarts (and Towerhobbies) website shortly. It's a pretty simple do it yourself conversion and it should be under $300 for all three drives and the control board.

I'm trying to convert my robart t-34 mentor gear to b-25 electric gear. If anyone needs some robart gear for their t-34 mentor, it would probably be easier to sell it and buy new gear. I'm thinking I will need about $170 for the conversion, which is half of the price for a new set of b-25 gear.

Also, has anyone flown with the 13x8x3 props? I generally fly in grass and sometimes it's tall grass. If there is any concern, I need to cancel my th order soon and just wait for a deal on the os 81a engines.

< Message edited by Fidelity101 -- 10/30/2012 1:22 AM >

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/31/2012 4:29 PM   
ronbell


 

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Status: offline 		Joel - check with Wingspanretracts.com  I bet they have the conversion kit you need, or they can convert them for you.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/31/2012 4:33 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Robart will be selling, if they don't already, the do it yourself conversion kit for 270. Includes the three drives and the control board. That's what I'm going with.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 10/31/2012 7:13 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		I'm trying to buy an onboard glow driver setup from sonic tonics and I need to know the length of wire required from the glow plug to the center of the fuselage or any logical place where the main box will be installed. Has anyone done this already? I haven't started the build process yet, so a rough estimate would be greatly appreciated.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/1/2012 11:03 AM   
gregory.aldrich1


 

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Status: offline 		I used two sonic tronics glow drivers in my B25. I mounted them on the hard framing of the nacelle underneath the fiberglass structures. I didn't need any extra length of wire other than what was included in the box. The only problem I had was adjusting them after install because of them being mounted under the fiberglass, so I drilled holes to access the adjustments and put american flag stickers over the holes to hide them.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/1/2012 1:48 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Greg. I read through the thread and noticed one person commented about using 40" wires for their twin engine setup. I have two Sullivan on board glows for my Cessna and I did what you did, which is to put one in each nacelle. It works, but I'd rather have one switch to deal with. I also hope to do that mod I read about early on in which people made a hatch using the front cockpit windows and installed all the switches in there.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/2/2012 12:25 AM   
gregory.aldrich1


 

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Status: offline 		Fidelity, you can get a McDaniels glow driver that will run both motors out of one box and have SonicTronics create longer leads for the actual connrection to the ground and glow plug. I think anyway. Having double boxes is no problem though because once you set your come on setting and switch the reverser, your done. I wanted the ability to adjust even after placing the fiberglass covers, so I drilled the holes. Like I wrote though, a couple well placed american flags and shazaam! the holes are gone. lol

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/6/2012 1:08 AM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Greg. I'm working on ordering a mcdaniels with 48" leads right now. I'm also thinking about the twin sync...anyone else use it? I was going to go with two optical rpm sensors via my hitec telemetry unit, but I'm not sure if I can activate a warning system using that. I wonder if the voice system would send a warning if one rpm went very low?

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/6/2012 1:34 AM   
rcnut101


 

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Status: offline 		I dont use any twin sync's. I really dont see a need for it. I have had 3 engine out's and it flys realy well on one engine. But that is my 2 cents.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/6/2012 1:45 AM   
Fidelity101


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcnut101

I dont use any twin sync's. I really dont see a need for it. I have had 3 engine out's and it flys realy well on one engine. But that is my 2 cents.


That's really good information rcnut. I've heard the Cessna 310 is pretty much dead if you have an engine out unless you immediately kill the other engine. I was thinking the B-25 might be in the same boat. I've contacted hitec regarding a warning system, through their telemetry products, which could sound an alarm if one engine goes below a certain rpm. I figured that it would be nice to be able to see each rpm from my remote, rather than using a stand alone tach, so I'm going to be installing the telemetry board as soon as I figure out how to make extensions for their optical tach and temp sensors. Seems odd that they only come with about 6" of leads with no reference to any extension cables...but that's another topic.

UPDATE:

Has anyone used the Hitec Telemetry unit in this plane? I'm reading mixed reports about the accuracy of the optical rpm and tech gauges going down as the cables get longer. If that's the case, it might be work properly on the B-25 as the engines are pretty far apart. I don't really care about the temperature information, but twin engine RPM data on my remote would be very helpful during setup...as well as providing a nice warning system if I loose one engine in flight.

< Message edited by Fidelity101 -- 11/10/2012 12:05 AM >

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/13/2012 11:14 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Anyone fly the Cessna 310 and the B-25? My Cessna 310 is 22 pounds AUW and it seems to slow quickly. I'm curious if anyone has flown both and can comment on the experience. Is one easier than the other? How about engine failures, do they both handle single engine out well or is one better than the other?

I haven't had the best of luck on my Cessna 310, so I'm curious if more stick time is required before ever attempting the B-25. I thought I was a good pilot until trying to fly the Cessna at 22 pounds in 16mph winds on top of a hill. I came in to slow and stalled while at low altitude. Completely my fault and good lessons learned, but I wonder if the B-25 will handle in a similar way.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/14/2012 12:46 AM   
rcnut101


 

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Status: offline 		Here is my experience with twins. My first was a KMP Tigercat which flew great but I made a few mistakes and I had an engine out and panicked and it became a frisbee and the rest was history. I did not give up. I bought another TigerCat, actually 2 of them, another esm and a ScaleWings F7F. I have esm one almost finised. In the meantime I found a used TF B-25 for a good price but had to rebuild engines. When I bought the model from some else, I should have had it set up my way because I had a nose gear wheel fall of and i did not have the engine throttle trims on the same switch and one engine died because I did not know which engine died. Long story short I spun it in. So I bought another TF B-25 and put it together in 2 1/2 weeks and started flying again. I had another engine out situation, but this time I did not panic. I pulled throttle back to let it straighten itself out and slowly advanced throttle on one engine and corrected rudder to maintain yaw. Finally I had control and success and flew it in on one engine. Since then I have had two engine out situations and a lean engine on take off last weekend and I am very comfortable with flying twins. They are not for everyone. They take a lot of time and patience unless they are electric. Im not a fan of electric twins. It takes all the challenge out of it. Kinda like hitting the "EASY" button. When Flying a twin, If a engine goes out, Always look for which wing goes high, thats your live engine and ALWAYS turn towards the high wing. Most twins will fly on one motor, P-38'S are the most feared twin due to the size of the rudder's. If you have a engine out, never use flaps to land. you always need airspeed.

Just my thoughts and experience,

Regaurds,
Doug D

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/29/2012 12:04 AM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Has anyone gone with an electric retract option? Or any retract option other than the Robart pneumatics?

I've opted to go with the McDaniels 472TE remote glow system with on/off switch because of their current 45% off sale. I figure a single system is easier to deal with vs. twin systems/twin batteries to charge/etc. I'm using one Smart Fly 3D system to sync the 4 flap servos, one Smart Fly 3D system to link the two elevators to the front nose wheel. I still need to find a good source for on/off switches with Deans connectors.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/29/2012 1:40 AM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		I've had fixed gear on mine for several years, now, and I'm looking at retracts. I'm leaning towards the Lados, but their website is confusing and I'm not sure what I should order, and I don't know of any other place to buy them.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 11/30/2012 7:47 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		I heard that Robart will be releasing the Top Flite B-25 electric retract conversion kit shortly, followed by a full set of electric retracts. I'm still not sure of the exact date, but I will hopefully have a set for my B-25 by the end of December. I'll post some pictures of them in operation before I install them. I believe Robart has teamed up with Down-n-locked in order to make the conversion kits.

I also got an email from Gary Conley about pumps for my OS 95v engines. He recommended that I install the VP-30 for each engine. You place a T fitting near the pressure fitting on the crankcase. One end of the T goes to the pump and the other end goes to the pressure fitting on the engine. The 90 degree portion of the T is vented back into the atmosphere. That explanation sounds a lot easier to wire up than the picture on their website (http://www.perrypumps.com/Pump%20and%20Bypass%20System.pdf) which requires two T fittings. Has anyone tried using a VP-30 with their four strokes? I'm wondering if it's overkill given the tank is so close to the engine and at the same level as the crankcase. If the engines are mounted inverted, then I can see how a pump would help stop the fuel from draining out of your engine. Since I haven't begun the installation yet, I'm not sure why people have chosen to install inverted vs. on the engines side.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/15/2012 3:05 PM   
RICK9303


 

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Status: offline 		To all interested in electric conversion of air retracts,

I got a email from Robart, saying they are working on the conversion now and hope to have some thing by mid Janurary. No price is set as of yet. Also said to check back on web site in a couple of weeks for news.

Rick

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 2:47 AM   
umitv


 

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Status: offline 		Mine got pair of os .55 ax and I'm out of all my glow engines. So I have two options 1) convert to electric 2) convert to gas. For gas option I'm thinking dle 20 or mintor 22. Sound is kinda too much for this plane. Is anybody tried it before???

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 5:21 AM   
christophe31


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustang Fever

I've had fixed gear on mine for several years, now, and I'm looking at retracts. I'm leaning towards the Lados, but their website is confusing and I'm not sure what I should order, and I don't know of any other place to buy them.

Hi Bob,
I don't think my web was confuse, and many post on RCU talk about us, is you already have your air retract you simply need to order the RS666 retrofit kit, and put it in place of your air cylinder. You plug them in your receiver like your others servos, and that's all.
No sequencer is needed, as our retracts and doors are fully digital programmable.
no separate battery or separate control board just an servo cable
look here what scale effect you could have:

and

and

tell me if you didn't understand something.
the magical brakes are plan to be available in the beginning of febrary.
christophe



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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 12:55 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: umitv

Mine got pair of os .55 ax and I'm out of all my glow engines. So I have two options 1) convert to electric 2) convert to gas. For gas option I'm thinking dle 20 or mintor 22. Sound is kinda too much for this plane. Is anybody tried it before???


I've decided to go with OS 95v engines since they were cheaper than the OS 81a and only 1oz heavier. There were many comments on this forum about 70s being the max recommended, but I've also heard from people flying that os81s take a lot of runway to get airborne on rough grass. I have a pretty uneven grass field so the extra power won't hurt. Also, if you want to go gas, the Saito 82 is now a gas FG-14. It's the same engine, but configured for gas vs nitro. I would have grabbed these instead if not for the heavy price tag. Maybe in another year they will come down in price a bit?

Also, as for the rs666 retract conversion, are they still $100+ per retract? I've already spent $500 on a single down-n-locked conversion for my Cessna 310 and I can't justify that kind of cost again. Robart will have the same conversion for ~$250, to include a control box. I think the rs666 will be more than the robart conversion once you include three actuators...or am I wrong?

Regarding a conversion to electric engines, there is a guy on rcgroups selling his newly build and never flown b-25 with helicopter electric engines. The engines have a built in fan and he made some mounts for them. If you opt to go electric, he might be able to give you some good pointers as he just completed the build in October 2012.

< Message edited by Fidelity101 -- 12/18/2012 3:04 PM >

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