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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 1:22 PM   
jdhughen


 

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Status: offline 		The guys at Down and Locked will convert you robarts to electric and give you a 2 year warrantee and they are in North Carolina. They had a booth at Joe Nall this year. They can convert just about any size gear/situation.

http://www.downandlocked.com/index.htm

Joel

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 1:57 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdhughen

The guys at Down and Locked will convert you robarts to electric and give you a 2 year warrantee and they are in North Carolina. They had a booth at Joe Nall this year. They can convert just about any size gear/situation.

http://www.downandlocked.com/index.htm

Joel


I am a proud owner of their converted retracts. The retracts, as you would probably expect, carry a warranty for the original owner only. They still provide repair, but don't expect anything to be cheap. (I will admit that I've never had a reason to have warranty service.) Down-n-locked teamed up with Robart to make the electric retracts that Robart will be selling shortly. Since Robart is charging $250 and down n locked charges $500, I asked the guys at down-n-locked about the price delta. They happily replied "our service speaks for itself and we're not trying to compete."



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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 2:29 PM   
christophe31


 

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ORIGINAL: Fidelity101

Also, as for the rs666 retract conversion, are they still $150 per retract? I've already spent $500 on a single down-n-locked conversion for my Cessna 310 and I can't justify that kind of cost again. Robart will have the same conversion for $250, to include a control box. I think the rs666 will be more than the robart conversion once you include three actuators...or am I wrong?


the price is 115$ ( where did you see 150$?? ) and they will come in 2013 with the robart Tbar, so to convert them , you only need to unscrew the aircylinder and change the Tbar... not a big stuff...

rgds
christophe



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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 2:41 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: christophe31


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidelity101

Also, as for the rs666 retract conversion, are they still $100+ per retract? I've already spent $500 on a single down-n-locked conversion for my Cessna 310 and I can't justify that kind of cost again. Robart will have the same conversion for ~$250, to include a control box. I think the rs666 will be more than the robart conversion once you include three actuators...or am I wrong?


the price is 115$ ( where did you see 150$?? ) and they will come in 2013 with the robart Tbar, so to convert them , you only need to unscrew the aircylinder and change the Tbar... not a big stuff...

rgds
christophe




Do you mind giving us some comparisons on your gear vs. the Robart electric conversion? I like the idea of not using a box to control the gear, but I'd like to have more information as I am actively looking for a set of retracts.


< Message edited by Fidelity101 -- 12/18/2012 3:07 PM >

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 2:43 PM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		Christophe:

Thanks for the reply. I still have fixed gear on my B-25, and need to know what to order to put Lado electric retracts (and brakes- when they become available) on it.

The website specifies which retracts I need, but I also need to know how to order struts. The website talks about measuring for struts but there is no instructions on how to order them.

I do not like Robart. I have had nothing but bad experience with them and will never use them again.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 2:56 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Mustang, do you mind sharing your reasons regarding Robarts? I've heard of several people breaking the nose gear on landing, but there was an easy fix for that. Maybe I should stop with the price quotes as they probably change over time anyway. I'm really interested in a set of retracts as I'm starting out with nothing...much like you are apparently. I'd need struts and retracts.

I must say that the down n locked gear work very well on the Cessna and I would probably do that again if money wasn't so tight. I haven't tried Lados but I've heard good things.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 3:21 PM   
christophe31


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidelity101

quote:

ORIGINAL: christophe31


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fidelity101

Also, as for the rs666 retract conversion, are they still $100+ per retract? I've already spent $500 on a single down-n-locked conversion for my Cessna 310 and I can't justify that kind of cost again. Robart will have the same conversion for ~$250, to include a control box. I think the rs666 will be more than the robart conversion once you include three actuators...or am I wrong?


the price is 115$ ( where did you see 150$?? ) and they will come in 2013 with the robart Tbar, so to convert them , you only need to unscrew the aircylinder and change the Tbar... not a big stuff...

rgds
christophe




Do you mind giving us some comparisons on your gear vs. the Robart electric conversion? I like the idea of not using a box to control the gear, but I'd like to have more information as I am actively looking for a set of retracts.


extremly simple:
1 - we use one control card for each unit, this increase the cost of the manufacturing, but the scale issue is the programming.It is very easy and you can do what you want :
door staying open
door closed after legs down
any delay from 0 to 15 s in each way
reverse option.
this make our system the most scaled one , and the most simpliest one to use, no separate battery, no control card to put in the fuse, everything is like a normal servos. you plug our retracts and door on one channel in your receievr and that's all.

2 - we use aluminium labelled aviation to machining the retract with our CNC, the material is more expensive than normal aluminium and CNC is more expensive to do than the pieces done by lathe.
3- unfotunatly we produce in Euro, and with the change Euro /Dollars we are a little more expense than if we produce in dollars.

@ mustang fever:
the legs are on the accessories section of my web.

i'm like you, modeler, and flew with my products, and go in many show all over europe, i expect going one day ( the sooner i can... ) on US air show.
i do the products i'm dreamin for.
we don't let the customer alone even several years.... we have customer since 2007 and we upgrade or do warranty service even several years.
i'm always answering to mail even on sunday ( when i'm not flying.... ok...) and now we develop a giant size retracts and actuators as many company asking us for the big big scale...
you will love the brakes as they'll be revolutionar....


be carefull with the FG14, mine was impossible to set, i've loosing my B-25 in cause of them. i don't know if they have increase them, but mine was the first production and was ù*"#@iit

< Message edited by christophe31 -- 12/18/2012 4:18 PM >

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 9:14 PM   
Mustang Fever



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I had a set of their air up/spring down units in an F-4 Phantom (prop in the nose). The valve they included in the kit was too restrictive, wouldn't let the air out of the units fast enough, and consequently they hung up on almost anything, sometimes nothing at all. I made several gear up landings before figuring this out and going to a less restrictive valve. (I think I ended up using one of their gear door valves. Push it and it lets all the air out of things.)

Then I had a set of mains for a 60 size Mustang, big ones, 3/8 OD robo struts. All they did was bend like crazy, even on takeoff. I'd make a takeoff, and end up with a gear up landing because one or the other would bend and get bound up on the wheel well. These were air down, and the slightest thing would hang them up, even at 120psi in the system. That's what caused me to swear off air retracts for good. Never again.

Finally, my TF Mustang 60 ARF came with a set of crap mechanical retracts, and I replaced them with Robart HDs because those are the only 85 degree mechanical retracts on the market, and at the time, Eflite didn't have the 60 size electrics available. Robart manufactured those retracts such that the set screw cannot be turned in far enough to engage the slot on the wire legs, so the dang things won't stay put and nothing but trouble, trouble, trouble.

I'm convinced the people at Robart never test anything before they market it, and won't ever buy any of their products again. I'd have to say I've never been more thoroughly disgusted with a supplier than I am with Robart.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/18/2012 9:53 PM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		Christophe:

I went to your website and found the downloadable, dimension drawings for the struts and retracts. With that information, it is easy to calculate the length of strut to order for various applications.

I'll probably order a set of RS333 85 degree for my TF P-51, sometime next summer. If they work OK, I'll get the RS333 90 mains and 105 nose for my B-25.

Thanks for your help. The website would work better if the button labled "download" was instead called "RS333 blueprint" and "RS333 strut blueprint", or something like that. Just calling them downloads causes them to be overlooked.

Also, it says on the website that the struts come with wheels, etc. Where can I find out what size wheels?


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/20/2012 2:26 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you for the information Mustang. This thread was created back in 2007 and it seems most people have been going with Robart retracts. I wanted to give their new electric retracts a shot, but I have no idea when they're really going to start selling them. The last time I called them, they gave me an estimated shipping date of last Friday. I am sure things are crazy with the holiday, new year, and all of the new rules being implemented for United States companies.

With all of that being said, I would really like to get my hands on a pair of electric retracts so I can start building this monster. Unless I have missed it, and I am only on page 71, I have not seen anyone discuss their experiences with anything other than Robart retracts. I am starting to wonder how difficult it would be to build the plane with fixed gear and later convert to electric retracts?

Also, since other people have discussed using a Gyro that can be turned on and off... I have been giving some thought to using this three axis Gyro in the B 25. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCUCV&P=ML
I plan on using it in my revolver 70 first to see how it handles. In 2-D mode it keeps the wings level when you let go of the sticks. I am not sure how it would react to a sudden yaw shift from a single engine out.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/20/2012 9:36 PM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		Fidelity:

The assembly book says TF specifically designed the Mitchell such that it would be easy to change from the factory supplied fixed gear to retracts. The fixed gear mounts mimic the shape and hole pattern of retracts.

I'm about to get into fixed wing airplane gyro application myself. I've been thinking rudder only for my TF Mustang and the Mitchell, as they are so difficult to keep straight on a paved runway in any kind of crosswind. I'm also working on a Dan Savage F-4 Phantom (EDF) that will have a rudder only gyro.

IMHO, the Mitchell doesn't need three axis, it's that easy to fly. (You wouldn't want it on a crosswind landing, anyhoo, as the neat part of rudder only is that it will track parallel to the runway, while you use a variable amount of aileron into the wind to keep it aligned over the center of the runway. They call it crossed controls when i was taking primary flight training about 100 years ago.)

On the Mitchell, if you go to a gyro, I'd suggest that you not turn it off in flight. If you lose an engine, things are going to happen rather quickly and you might not get it turned back on in time. After almost three years of learning to fly helis, I've acquired the habit of using the rudder stick in turns. This overrides the gyro and allows a normal turn. Takes a bit of getting used to, but it works.

Electric retracts are inherently more powerful than air ops, due to the worm gearing. The motor has a tremendous mechanical advantage over the strut block because of it. On air ops, it's a reverse lever system, and it's not possible to make the cylinders large enough to generate the kind of power the electrics can. Even at 120 psi a half inch piston will generate less than 50 pounds of thrust. After going through the reverse lever system I doubt if the force on the strut block equals 10 pounds.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/23/2012 9:51 PM   
RICK9303


 

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Status: offline 		Does any one know besides Glennis, does some one make a set of more scale wheels and tires?

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/24/2012 4:25 AM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		Everyone get their "Model Aviation" yesterday? Read the article on the new TF giant scale FW-190 ARF? Note the use of Robart electric retracts? And the part about if you turn the power on to the airplane several times in a row with the retracts down, they lock up and you have to manually turn the worm to free them up or you'll have a set of fixed mains on your bird?

GO ROBART!!!! I'm sure everyone will line up to buy their electric retracts, now. Rotsa ruck, G.I. Overpriced junk.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/28/2012 11:19 PM   
kochj


 

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Status: offline 		I was wondering when +.90 size 4 strokes would be run in this one....

Anyone order up the Evolution .60 gasoline 2-stroke engine and place it in this one?
Seems like a reliable, and inexspensive fuel choice... .

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/29/2012 5:21 AM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		One of the nice things about this bird is that most anything will fit in the cowls, allowing you to turn nice, large scale size props. The only downside I can see is that there isn't a lot of space for big fuel tanks. I had to really cram to get 11oz ones in mine.

And everyone has been right that the bird will fly on most anything. The thick airfoil gives it a very low stalling speed, at a very high AOA. I think if you can get it to move at all, it'll probably fly OK.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/29/2012 5:27 AM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		I haven't started building yet, so I can't speak from experience...but the stock plane comes with 14oz tanks so how was it hard to fit an 11oz tank? After a LOT of thinking, I've decided to start the build with OS 95v engines. I have 2 OS 81a's and two OS 95v engines. The 95v is exactly 1oz heavier and should spin a 13x8x3 easily.



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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 12/29/2012 2:15 PM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		I used Sullivans tanks, for reliability, and the 11oz was the biggest that would go in there.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/2/2013 4:59 AM   
kochj


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustang Fever

I used Sullivans tanks, for reliability, and the 11oz was the biggest that would go in there.

You could try a SODA or H2o bottles of dif. sizes....
Too bad you can't use IV bags Like I use in my Gas Boat....


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/6/2013 1:37 PM   
djstar39


 

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Status: offline 		I have a couple of NIB DLE 20 engines sitting in my workshop and there are days when I stare at them and then stare at my B-25 and kind of go back and forth.

I have had a couple of Saito 82's in mine that have been problematic with surging. Horizon Hobby is awesome because when I sent them in for service a couple months ago, they agreed that they were surging and just sent me 2 brand new engines! Pretty awesome after using them for 3 years!!! HH is the best as I certainly did NOT expect new engines!!!

So I have 2 DLE's and 2 Saito's sitting in their boxes with 2 empty firewalls. I'm converting most of my birds to gas so I think I'm going to have to see if there's a possibility here.

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/6/2013 2:16 PM   
Mustang Fever



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Status: offline 		Now that's a good problem to have.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/12/2013 9:16 PM   
RICK9303


 

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Status: offline 		Is there some thing with Glennis Aircraft? I emailed them twice on a set of wheels and tires for my B25 and got no reponce. Does anyone know of an other place to get scale wheels, other than robart?

Thanks Rick

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/13/2013 11:12 AM   
gregory.aldrich1


 

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Status: offline 		I got my scale wheels from Tower hobbies. I believe they were sullivan but I could only get the mains in metal, the nose gear only came in plastic. Hope that helps.
Greg

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/13/2013 1:24 PM   
rcnut101


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RICK9303

Is there some thing with Glennis Aircraft? I emailed them twice on a set of wheels and tires for my B25 and got no reponce. Does anyone know of an other place to get scale wheels, other than robart?

Thanks Rick



He is very slow to respond, From what I understand , His days of making R/C stuff is limited. Tires and wheels for this are $275.00

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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/16/2013 8:19 PM   
Fidelity101


 

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Status: offline 		The included engine mounts say they're good for up to a 70 size engine. I have a couple extra pairs of engine mounts that are designed for the larger OS 95v engine that I'm using...but I will not be able to use the larger engine mounts and still be able to install the engine at the angle listed in the manual. I cut out the four stroke mounting pattern and temporarily taped it to the firewall. Because the larger engine mounts could not be installed at the angle listed in the manual, I decided to go with the stock engine mounts. This required me to cut off the front of the circular portion of each engine mount so I could get the engine as far back as possible. I was able to get exactly 5" from firewall to prop hub.

I'm posting a few pictures of my engine mounts to show spacing with the stock mounts as well as the throttle servo mounts. I did the left engine mount first and the engine sits back about 1/16" shy of 5". The right engine is almost exactly 5" out.


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RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) - 1/30/2013 10:55 PM   
Airnondas


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djstar39

I have a couple of NIB DLE 20 engines sitting in my workshop and there are days when I stare at them and then stare at my B-25 and kind of go back and forth.

I have had a couple of Saito 82's in mine that have been problematic with surging. Horizon Hobby is awesome because when I sent them in for service a couple months ago, they agreed that they were surging and just sent me 2 brand new engines! Pretty awesome after using them for 3 years!!! HH is the best as I certainly did NOT expect new engines!!!

So I have 2 DLE's and 2 Saito's sitting in their boxes with 2 empty firewalls. I'm converting most of my birds to gas so I think I'm going to have to see if there's a possibility here.


Hi Djstar

I am thinking about putting in two DLE's as well, for one no more oily mess to clean up at the end of the day, how do you think the DLE's will do for power.

Cheers


Airnondas.

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