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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/23/2008 9:30:40 AM   
Bone



Posts: 300
Joined: 3/15/2002
From: GraftonNSW, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		10% Castrol M castor, 10% Red Klotz, 10% nitro & 70% methanol - I find it to be a good all round mix

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       Post #: 26

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/23/2008 8:35:31 PM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2984
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Too much castor for a 4-stroke.

10% castor *will* cause carboning on the exhaust valve/stem and ports.

Dropping the castor level to 2-3% will provide all the same benefits as 10% but effectively eliminate the carboning problem. Klotz will work fine at 17-18% as the balance of the lube but you could go down to as little as 10% of a higher-performing synthetic and save yourself some money, while gaining a little performance and fuel-economy to boot.

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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/24/2008 8:33:54 AM   
Delta3


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Toowoomba, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I seem to have encountered the reason why we are getting our wires crossed on this topic. After a little internet research i found a saito web site. Some of you may know of it and others may not. The site is apparently not affiliated with saito itself but does have a lot of uesful info.

There seems to be two different sets of instructions issued by saito for thier engines, One lot for America and another for the rest of the world. The American instructions recommend a small percentage of castor, namely 2-5%. The instructions for the rest of the world recommend an all synthetic blend.
The website is http://saito-engines.info

If saito cant make up their mind on what fuel to use what chance have the rest of us got

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       Post #: 28

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/24/2008 4:11:27 PM   
misfitsailor



Posts: 182
Joined: 12/24/2003
From: stockton, CA, USA
Status: online 		I just looked at the manual to one of my (9) Saito engines. It said;
quote:

Saito recommends a fuel containing 20% oil and 10-15% nitro methane... Fuels composed entirely of castor oil are not recommended. Use of such fuels will void the warranty.


So Saito approves of using part castor and 20% oil total.

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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/24/2008 4:29:11 PM   
kranie


 

Posts: 25
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: Appleton, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I have had good results with Wildcat YS 20/20. It leaves alot of reside and, in my opinion, expensive but I have had no problems with my saito 100 while running it.

Saito does not recomend useing less than 20% oil in the fuel. the reason for this is that the Saito's are generally lighter in comparison to say OS 4 strokes. They get away with this by recomending a higher oil content (20% vs 18%) and flush more fuel thru the engine to keep it lubricated and cool- which explains why they are messy and less fuel effienct. I really like my Saito engines. But like any design- there are always positives and negitaives. I prefer OS 4 strokes. They are heavier, arguably have less power than the Saito, but leave less goop and I can run them on much cheaper fuel (Wilcat 2 & 4 stroke 10% nitro and 18% oil.) and I can use the same fuel for my 2 strokes & 4 strokes.

I did run 18% oil in my Saito 100 all last season in my P-51. But I made a point of running it rich and I also only flew it about 20 times. this year I plan to go back to YS 20/20 with the saito.

< Message edited by kranie -- 2/24/2008 4:31:48 PM >

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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/24/2008 8:17:47 PM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2984
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kranie
Saito does not recomend useing less than 20% oil in the fuel. the reason for this is that the Saito's are generally lighter in comparison to say OS 4 strokes. They get away with this by recomending a higher oil content (20% vs 18%) and flush more fuel thru the engine to keep it lubricated and cool


Why do you think that just because an engine is lighter it needs more oil?

We run our Saitos on less than 20% here and have had *no* problems at all.

People in Europe run them on 10% (or less) oil and have no problems.

The real reason most engine manufacturers quote such high recommended oil levels is because they have no control over the quality of oil being used so they err on the side of caution. At 20%, even the worst of oils will probably provide adequate protection, whereas a higher quality oil will work fine down to 10% or less.



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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/25/2008 12:07:04 AM   
Delta3


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Toowoomba, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Yes it does but only in america. From what i can gather the rest of the worlds manuals say no castor but it comes down to personal choice.

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       Post #: 32

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/25/2008 12:45:22 AM   
kranie


 

Posts: 25
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: Appleton, WI, USA
Status: offline 		YOu are right that just because an engine is lighter- does not mean it requires more oil. That was a bad choice of words on my part.

What I meant to say was that with every design there are trade offs. The Saito becasue of how it is designed builds up more heat- there is less metal around the piston area. Some how that heat needs to be delt with. Lubrication and pushing more fuel (that contains the oil) thru it is how Saito deals with it. As a result they have a light, high performance engine.



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Daniel Krahenbuhl

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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/25/2008 3:19:58 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2984
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kranie
What I meant to say was that with every design there are trade offs. The Saito becasue of how it is designed builds up more heat- there is less metal around the piston area. Some how that heat needs to be delt with. Lubrication and pushing more fuel (that contains the oil) thru it is how Saito deals with it. As a result they have a light, high performance engine.


Why do you think that less metal means higher temperatures?

Once the engine reaches operating temperature, it wouldn't matter if the piston was solid aluminum or a lightweight skirted one.

And don't forget that the Saito is AAC construction so it actually does a *much* better job of staying cool than ABC or steel-sleeved engines like the OS. The less metal between the "fire" and the ambient air, the faster the heat will conduct away and the engine will stay cool.

With most 4-strokes, the combustion heat must first be conducted by the steel liner (not such a good conductor of heat) then cross the interface between the liner and the aluminum crankcase casting, then pass through the aluminum to the air.

By comparison, the Saito has no steel liner so the heat of combustion is conducted directly to the fins where it quickly transfers to the propwash/ambient air.

One thing I did notice with my Saitos is that they seem to run *cooler* than my other 4-strokes.

The only thing that made me a *little* hesitant about using low-oil ratios with Saitos is the lack of a bronze bush in the conrod. However, this doesn't seem to have been any problem in practice.


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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/25/2008 11:55:13 PM   
blw



Posts: 4314
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		The convoluted castor recommendations by Saito may be driven by individual markets, or in the translation process. They produce great manuals when they print them. I've been looking for a real Saito 170R3 manual for a long time, and haven't found anyone who has one yet. I think some of the castor and no castor recommendations were distributed in the U.S. too at one point. I would tend to agree with caveats on running all castor, or at least warnings about carbon.

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RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines - 2/26/2008 8:12:19 AM   
Delta3


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Toowoomba, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Can someone please explain the concept of 20/20 fuel. I have never herd of this and what are the benifits if any??????

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 36

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