RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll
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[Poll]

Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll


Just for the insurance
  27% (52)
For the insurance and other reasons
  43% (81)
For some other reason not tied to insurance
  28% (53)


Total Votes : 186


(last vote on : 1/18/2008 1:39:28 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 1:40:29 PM   
kid chuckles


 

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Hoss thanks for the comments and they are taken with a grain of salt. Am glad for the members that actually recieve some acalades from AMA. It is your money and you can send it in if you want and i am sure they appreciate your doing so. That is highly commendable of you as a member and as a person. But i still am a dumbunny as far as knowing what the AMA does. Sorry if that offends you as it seems to. But like i said most guys join not knowing what they do and that is just being honest. They just know that to fly at the fields that have anykind of descent runway they are to be a member with the AMA . They also become members of flying clubs that in turn uses there money to keep the fields up and build runways. Maybe in a few yrs. I might have a completley different outlook on this as i am sure your opinion on AMA has varied at times. I am sure your not completley satisfied with everything they do or the way they do it. I have read alot of your posts and guess that is why you were trying to become prez is because you thought change was needed. Am I wrong in that assumption? If so then pardon me. But thanks for letting me comment. You can tear this up also if you wish and I will probabaly be dumbunny enough to respond again. rofl i really do appreciate what AMA does even though i don't know exactly what it is but do know without them would be bad. Thanks Charlie Cross

(in reply to Hossfly)
       Post #: 51

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 5:40:50 PM   
Kule Kanain



Posts: 135
Joined: 9/24/2002
From: Sheffield Lake, OH, USA
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I have taken the time to follow up on this post and, while seeing evidence of some trolling, have read some very good and insightful reasons that people joined the AMA. However, the last few posts seem to go right back to the heart of the problem and the very thing I referenced in my earlier post.

quote:

When I joined the club I am a member of it was because they had the only runway around. I had been flying at our local park and using the paved road as a runway along with several around 15 or so others. When I did go to the club to join I was told to join I had to be a member of the AMA and was also told you NEED TO BE A MEMBER FOR THE INSURANCE.
I joined the AMA because I had to join the club to be able to fly at there field AMA member or not I could be a guest 3 times and they required an AMA membership(just to visit and fly) I joined not knowing a thing about them other than it was required to fly at most places that had a runway. And I was told by the VP at the club that i needed to be a member for the ins. and that is the only reason i was given. Like i said had no idea what AMA was as i beileve 95% of the guys that join don't either other than it is a requirment to be able to use the facility(because of ins).


WE are the face of the AMA to most potential members, not some place in Muncie or some words in a magazine. If through our misunderstand of what the organization represents, we in turn misrepresent, why would we expect a response any different than - for the insurance?

_____________________________

Kule Kanain
AMA L778
IMAC 4078

(in reply to kid chuckles)
       Post #: 52

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 5:57:08 PM   
mscic-RCU



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From: New London, OH,
Status: offline
certainly not for the magazine!

club requires it

(in reply to P-51B)
       Post #: 53

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 6:05:25 PM   
Jim Messer



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From: Sebring, FL, USA
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To kid chuckles:

Your post applies to a lot of new flyers - not just yourself. It is true - to fly at most clubs, AMA membership and the insurance that goes with it is mandatory. Why? Because, these days flying fields are hard to get, and even harder to keep. Landowners want proof of insurance, and the AMA provides them with that certificate.

In our club, we fly on land owned by the county, at no charge to us. We obtained this field by going to the county commissioners and asked them to help us find a place to fly. I was on that committee, and the first thing they asked - Do you have any kind of insurance? When we explained to them about AMA insurance, which they knew nothing about, it was an easy task after that. All five commissioners voted to build us a flying field - that was in November, and we were flying off it in February. The county built us cross runways, rolled them, put in a parking lot, and built a road to the field. Then they paved the road, and today it's like the finest golf course that you have ever seen, still at no charge to us.

Clubs all over the US are in the same boat. That's why you are always told that you must belong to AMA to fly at their field. Letting someone fly that does not belong to AMA, violates the rules by which the fields were obtained in the frst place - it's like breaking the law, and when the landowner finds out, it's grounds for dismissal - and out you go! The situation would be even worse if the non-AMA member were to have an accident.

So, don't be too hard on the clubs when they insist on you're being an AMA member. That's just the way it is these days, and if you want to fly R/C as part of a club, then you just have to accept that fact.

So what else does AMA do? Well, back in the thirties when it was formed, it was an organization that promoted the building and flying of model airplanes, and that was all. Back then it was all rubber band powered planes, and engine driven free-flight type planes. The AMA drew up the rules for competition, class A, B, and C for the free-flight gas models, for example. They established the length of engine run, and the wing loading for models flown in competition. Back then, gas powered models of any description were so new, they attracted huge crowds of people wherever they would be flown. The AMA also started the Nats, where top modelers got recognized for their skills and achievements.

As modeling progresssed, soon along came U-control. Just like the free-flight models, they too required a set of rules for competitive purposes. Engine classes were maintained and U-control soon became another big part of AMA competition.

From U-control, we jumped into radio controlled models. In the beginning we flew on the citizens band, 27 MH., and it had many problems. Anybody with a CB radio in their car, just driving by could shoot you down. SKIP, as it was known to CB'rs, could also shoot you down, and that signal could come from hundreds of miles away. In our vicinity, we had radio controlled cranes in the industrial plants, all operating on 27MH., so flying an R/C airplane in a safe and reliable manner wasn't always possible.

The AMA recognized this problem, and fought with the FCC to obtain a bunch of new frequencies on 72MH, soley for the use of model airplanes, resulting in good reliabliity, and our ability then to fly R/C planes safely. The hobby grew fast with the advent of R/C, and with that came the need for modelers to be insured. That's where we are today, and your ability to enjoy your R/C planes today has those roots.

The AMA doesn't do much for individual members - how could they? Instead, their function is to govern all aspects of model aviation, and be our combined voice when required, whether it be free-flight, U-control, R/C, or one of the special SIG's that operate within the AMA guidlines. Obtaining the 72Mh. radio frequencies from the FCC is probably the example most people understand best.

I will end this dissertation by asking you to consider - not what will the AMA do for you today, but what has the AMA done in the past that makes today possible. Believe me, in all probability, if it weren't for the AMA, you would not be enjoying the hobby as you now know it.

I hope this helps with the confusion you and others like you have about the AMA. It's a good organization, so please support it.







_____________________________

Jim Messer

(in reply to kid chuckles)
       Post #: 54

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 8:13:33 PM   
KidEpoxy



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Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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quote:

Clubs all over the US are in the same boat. That's why you are always told that you must belong to AMA to fly at their field. Letting someone fly that does not belong to AMA, violates the rules by which the fields were obtained in the frst place - it's like breaking the law, and when the landowner finds out, it's grounds for dismissal - and out you go! The situation would be even worse if the non-AMA member were to have an accident.


Jim-
Please review the thread Should AMA clubs allow non-AMA to fly ,
and the AMA 911.pdf in the charterkit regarding clubs making rules keeping non-members out. (paragraphs 2&3 in particular)

If you had gone to the county saying all flyers will have personal liability insurance(by AMA or $16Hartford) and the club provides site insurance protecting the landowner regardless of AMA membership, how would that have been different? All the club had to do is change the club bylaw/charter phrases that prohibit non-members into Specifying levels of Alternate Pilot Insurance for PayPerDay flyers.

Unless the AMA(muncie) somehow wont let that happen, which is something well discussed in the thread about just this subject. Feel free to chime in on the poll discussion on whether adequately insured non-members should be allowed via PayPerDay or whatever the club wants.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Jim Messer)
       Post #: 55

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 8:45:23 PM   
kid chuckles


 

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From: Granbury, TX, USA
Status: offline
Jim thank you very much that was very informative. I thought that it would be along those lines and do very much appreciate the AMA. I am a fairly new member under a yr. but have many more yrs. ahead of me to give to the AMA. We are pretty sure that our field will be unavaliable in less than a yr. and have nowhere else to go. I suggested at a meeting that the AMA had folks to help with trying to obtain new fields. And i do believe that they will be needed also suggested that the higher members of our small 43member club go to the city and explain that with the AMA at their side maybe the city would do the same for us as it did you. The town I live in is very tourist oriented and I also suggested they might be interested in helping if we were to start having some fly-ins and competitions at the new field filling up the motels and square with competitors or folks comming into town for fly-ins. I do try my best to promote RC as a whole as i have not only planes but cars also. I only started last summer and have already accumulated 14 planes and 5 cars. I have my 10yr. old grandson flying ON HIS OWN a Super Cub (that is what got me started) and now have almost all glow planes. With two elec. (an ultimate bi, and an Eratix) I am gungho on this sport and just don't know everything there is to know about the entity that governs it. I am a new member of our club and so is my son that has 3 planes now also. We both try to do whatever is needed to help our club whenever possible. I am fortunate to own my own business which does well and can help a little more than some members even to the point of buying land just for a field (that fell thru) but did try. So I think i do promote the sport I for sure talk enough about it my wife says lol. Again thank you for your kindness and explanation of just some of what the AMA is about. Charlie

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 56

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 9:41:53 PM   
Jim Messer



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Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Sebring, FL, USA
Status: offline
KC. To answer your question, we don't let anyone fly at our field that does not belong to AMA for any reason, other than the introductory pilot program spelled out by the AMA. The reason is quite simple - that's the way we negotiated getting our field with the county. We would have no way of knowing or consistently proving if a non AMA member had their own insurance, and if their policy was paid up. Just look at the number of un-insured drivers on the highways today , even though having auto insurance is mandatory by the state they live in. We don't take any chances on losing our nice field just because someone wants to fly there without having an AMA certification. Our field was obtained under the premise that all flyers would be AMA insured. We did not discuss their being insured by another party. How in the world would one enforce the rules if everyone had a different insurance company?

We do at times let a non-AMA member make a flight using a buddy box as stated in the AMA rules, but to be quite honest, that isn't very often. Most of the time, the new guy already knows the score thru talking with others, and is prepared to first become an AMA member if he wants to join the club. AMA certified guests of club members are allowed to fly four times before they must join the club. Persons that show up at the field to fly that are neither club members, or guests of club members, even thought they might be AMA members, are liable for trespassing. Persons that show up at the field that don't have an AMA certification, are never allowed to fly, except for the one-flight buddy-box rule.

This is taking the subject off the topic, so no more from me. Let's get back to the reasons why we belong to AMA. I have already told you why I belong. Why do you? Let's hear it.



_____________________________

Jim Messer

(in reply to kid chuckles)
       Post #: 57

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/23/2007 10:46:23 PM   
Mode One


 

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It's important to remember that the AMA is made up of members just like all of us here, some well versed in the benefits of being a member of the AMA, some not and everyone in between. Information on the AMA is available at the AMA's website, possibly everything you ever wanted to know and then some. There is generally all the information you need on your local district, at your local district's website.

However, who's job is it to learn this information? It is you, the individual member! I'm sorry that the first exposure many get to the AMA is a declaration by a club member that" "You need it for the insurance"! My guess is this comes from the fact that many members simply look upon the AMA as that is it's sole purpose, which is indeed unfortunate!


_____________________________

Mode One, AMA 59157

(in reply to Jim Messer)
       Post #: 58

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/24/2007 6:07:04 AM   
KidEpoxy



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Jim-
yup, didnt want to take this thread into a debate on the non-member flying... just inviting you to join that subject chat & vote in the poll of the thread I linked to.

Ok, I did that. Hope to see you post in the linked poll.
And now I too am done with that subject here.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Jim Messer)
       Post #: 59

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/24/2007 6:16:29 AM   
Fredsterman


 

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From: Ravenna, OH, USA
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I joined the AMA first, because I needed AMA to join my club.
Later i realised I really HAD to
My trainer crashed within 200' of "some guy on a bike", at the edge of the field. Scared him a bit
I don't mean to fan the fire of the PC safety nuts, as we all know anything can be dangerous, if misused
Without my instructor, my plane might have hurt someone.
Without the AMA, I might be paying for it for the rest of my working life.


(in reply to Mode One)
       Post #: 60

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/24/2007 2:09:03 PM   
STLPilot


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Please review the thread Should AMA clubs allow non-AMA to fly ,
and the AMA 911.pdf in the charterkit regarding clubs making rules keeping non-members out. (paragraphs 2&3 in particular)
Well you are certainly overstating the AMA's stance on the issue. The AMA only suggests not to allow club members ONLY when the field is exclusive for AMA members use. But the choice is still the clubs. There is no rule and in this case a suggestion to protect the LANDOWNER, who has given exclusive rights to an AMA club to use his field. Once again you missed where the AMA said EXCLUSIVE. That means the AMA and the landowner made an agreement and this suggestion protects him.

So try to put yourself in the shoes of the person or public park lending the land and trusting the people whom they've made an exclusive agreement with and many times not knowing anything about the hobby or the AMA. This is why the AMA does not mind a site owner from holding more then 1 charter to coexist with the AMA to help with your obvious concerns. If you think the AMA is such the control freaks, they could simply say only single charters allowed which they could simply do.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 10/24/2007 9:29:48 PM >


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Here At The Wall

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 61

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/24/2007 6:47:21 PM   
STLPilot


 

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..

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 10/24/2007 6:53:50 PM >


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Here At The Wall

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RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/25/2007 12:22:09 PM   
Mode One


 

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STL, can I ask you to proof your post above?

"The AMA only suggests not to allow club members ONLY when the field is exclusive for AMA members use".

The above sentence is only one of the sentences which makes no sense in the above post. Not criticizing, simply want to understand what your saying. I have to read back what I post several times to attempt to make sure what I'm thinking, is what I'm saying! Even then I am capable of getting things screwed up!


_____________________________

Mode One, AMA 59157

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 63

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/25/2007 1:29:46 PM   
STLPilot


 

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Sure thing, it's in doc 911.

To preserve the availability of low cost insurance to your club and its site owner, the people who fly with your club should contribute their share of that cost. They can do so by becoming dues paying members of your AMA charter club as well. In the same vein, if the landowner for your club’s chartered club field has granted the club exclusive flying privileges, the club should ONLY allow AMA members and current members of the Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) to fly at the field. If your club is flying on public land and it has not been granted exclusive flying rights by the public agency in charge, your club activities should be confined to AMA members, and you are not responsible for other (non-AMA) flier’s actions. Should the public agency be named as an additional insured, it has coverage only for the actions of your club, its members, and other visiting AMA members who are considered guests.

Before we start arguing again about their stance on public use land, re-read it, it only says "club activities", not "to fly at the field" as it did in when dealing with exclusive private use.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 10/25/2007 9:03:56 PM >


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Here At The Wall

(in reply to Mode One)
       Post #: 64

RE: Why do you belong to the AMA? Poll - 10/29/2007 3:02:03 PM