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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 10/31/2007 10:30:31 PM   
rc bugman



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Most modelers are very unclear about the real carrying potential of the 25-33% airframe. Wing loadings of 80 oz per sq ft is no problem with a builtup wing. Think before you shoot!!!

Elson

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 12:25:43 AM   
d_wheel



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rc bugman

D.W.

Most modelers are very unclear about the real carrying potential of the 25-33% airframe. Wing loadings of 80 oz per sq ft is no problem with a builtup wing. Think before you shoot!!!

Elson


And your point is?

D.W.


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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 3:26:31 AM   
longdan



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quote:

I suggest you cast your eyes toward Iran and other oil rich countries who hate the American way of life if you want to keep UAV bomb threats in check


One of the reasons for using UAVs is to keep the risk to human life (ie pilot and aircrew) to a minimum.
It has been proven time and time again that those who hate the western way of life are more than willing to sacrifice their own lives for what they percieve as a greater cause. They don't need UAVs to deliver a payload onto target. They will just use a human pilot.

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 12:40:49 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

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I'm fairly sure you've seen some of the posts in other forums here on RCU asking the how's and why's of small aircraft generators, payloads and stabilization, gps navigation, potential flight duration, max possible altitudes, and down link methods. Quite often they have come from Chinese locations, but others have come from the middle east. In every case quite a few people wanted to be "helpful" and give them every bit of information they could.

If there are that many people so stupid as to think everything they do and pass on here is going to be used for absolutely innocent purposes, or not expanded on for offensive intel platforms, then I just don't know what else I or others can say that might influence them to keep their mouths shut. If it can carry a test tube it's an extremely dangerous weapon. If it can "see" and report back it's just as dangerous.

I know uas products intimantely. They've been responsible, both directly and indirectly, for some pretty mean and nasty things. The technology used in their designs started out as generally harmless r/c type stuff and grew exponentially from there. You wouldn't normally hand a loaded gun to someone you knew wanted you dead, so why do people want to discuss easy to build upon uas designs and technology here in an open forum? This one is just a little slower to have the trigger pulled.

< Message edited by Pat Roy -- 11/1/2007 6:38:59 PM >

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 2:44:38 PM   
d_wheel



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat Roy

Mith,

You wouldn't normally hand a loaded gun to someone you knew wanted you dead, so why do people want to discuss easy to build upon uas designs and technology here in an open forum?


Because I know what kind of "gun" I am handing him. Compared to the equipment needed to do reliable/repeatable missions, our UAV equipment is like comparing a 357 magnum revolver to a toy gun shooting suction cup darts.

As for easy to build on, that just isn't so. Try it with the equipment available to model builders and you will see what I mean. After doing it for many years, it still thrills me just to see my airplane fly within 300 feet of it's intended path.

Sorry, but the threat you are referring to is so miniscule that I am not worried about it.

D.W.


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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 6:56:48 PM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		I've said all I can say about the subject, clearly to no avail. Hopefully all that participate in this forum will show some restraint. I've been working in the field for some time now as well and know that just about anyone that knows how to use a search function can obtain anything they require to build pretty close to anything they want, with astounding accuracy. It's only limited by how much they are willing to spend. Hopefully those that participate will show some restraint and common sense while thinking about the future. I fear that they will not since history always repeats itself. People in the U.S. live in a dimension totally detached from the outside world and only catch the smallest skewed part of reality on the 6 o'clock news. It's a helluva lot more dangerous out in the rest of the world than most will ever imagine.

I'm out, enjoy....

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 8:58:30 PM   
mithrandir



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Status: offline 		The goal of the terrorist is to terrorize... not necessarily repeatable/reliable missions... We take off our shoes at airports now right???
I think they(Terrorists) have figured out on a plane or a train.. the passengers will Kick their Arse if they tried anything nowadays...

But Pats point is... why give technology away here in these forums and make it easier for the bad guys to do what they want ... particularly to Cause harm with what WE do for fun!

All it will take is one semi-successful terrorist attempt with a model plane and we will all be getting fingerprinted for our Lic to fly models.

I think we can still converse about UAV's and the industry without giving away national secrets or violating ITAR requirements. A rule of thumb is, if a particular company has the info on their public websites, it is OK to discuss....
Though I believe Pat to have the concern of THIS forum being the hub where all this technology can be put together... sort of one-stop-shopping for the Hodji's!!!

I am in the UAV business, I want to leverage these pages to promote the industry and even find employable candidates... but I don't want to help a seemingly LARGE number of people who want to kill all the infidels either... tuff balance!

I am kind of a first ammendment guy, but maybe there should be some moderation consulting with people involved in Intelligence to help limit what is revealed....?????

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/1/2007 9:26:16 PM   
d_wheel



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mithrandir

I am in the UAV business, I want to leverage these pages to promote the industry and even find employable candidates.



If this is a forum only for discussing full size, high capability UAV's then I am in the wrong place. Guess I will just stick with the other forum where the subject revolves around our toy airplanes.

Later;

D.W.


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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/2/2007 12:10:37 AM   
mithrandir



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quote:

ORIGINAL: d_wheel


quote:

ORIGINAL: mithrandir

I am in the UAV business, I want to leverage these pages to promote the industry and even find employable candidates.



If this is a forum only for discussing full size, high capability UAV's then I am in the wrong place. Guess I will just stick with the other forum where the subject revolves around our toy airplanes.

Later;

D.W.



ummmm....even the FAA acknowledges that UAV's can range from 4 ounces to 25,600 pounds... I think you are included!

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/2/2007 12:18:09 AM   
Tired Old Man


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Mith, you summed up well the points I was trying to get across. There's some good and fun things all can do in the world of UAV's, but let's all try to avoid giving away stuff that should stay "in house". Three countries currently hold the lions share of trade secrets in the business. We don't need a fourth or fifth. Think hard before you commit to print and het the send button.

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/2/2007 12:48:49 AM   
mithrandir



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Status: offline 		I won't mention the "Flux Capacitor" then!!! lol

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/2/2007 2:28:31 AM   
d_wheel



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mithrandir

I won't mention the "Flux Capacitor" then!!! lol


And I won't tell anyone where to buy an Easystar airplane or RCAP autopilot.

Later;

D.W.


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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 11/2/2007 12:17:29 PM   
longdan



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quote:

If there are that many people so stupid as to think everything they do and pass on here is going to be used for absolutely innocent purposes, or not expanded on for offensive intel platforms, then I just don't know what else I or others can say that might influence them to keep their mouths shut.


Geez pal, take a chill pill.

We are only here to discuss our common interest in this subject (of UAVs, not terrorism)

Do you go to trucking forums and tell them not to discuss trucks because they might be used to transport a bomb someplace?

< Message edited by longdan -- 11/2/2007 12:19:51 PM >

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 12/3/2007 12:58:00 AM   
NavyVet1965


 

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 12/3/2007 5:31:30 AM   
T45WingNut



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Status: offline 		I agree with mithrandir people have to take care in what they post on here about " How to do things" I am in the UAV Biz my self. I own a small shop and we make and Build parts and some one off airframes R&D and prototype parts for a few companies.. (All so Run a FAA certified repair station) anyways I have been Approached by a few individuals ( pm's and emails ) asking about things Like "Can i build this or that for them" or " can they buy this from or threw me " to be shipped over seas to them.. . but once i start asking about there intent or what the name of there company is they disappear.. or give a Bogus company information.. ( I all was do a back grown check on anyone wanting to use my services ) anyways guess my point is there are some persons that are on the RCU list that are up to something and no good... we all need to take care in what we pass on.. I would not know what to do if something i Built or pass on information about building ended up hurting someone...


just my 2 cents

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RE: When does a RC plane become a drone? - 12/20/2007 10:10:47 PM   
ira d


 

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Status: offline 		I think and this is just common sense reasoning that a rc plane gets
into the UAV arena when it is flown at a location or altitude that can
conflict with full scale planes.

I would also say when the plane is overflying a area that is not normally
set aside for model use. as far as haveing a camera onboard or being
paid to fly or haveing a auto pilot on board I dont see what that has to
do with anything.

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