Getting Excited about CL--Again!  
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Control Lines >> Getting Excited about CL--Again!
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Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 2:48:03 PM   
FlyingGreg



Posts: 583
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Hey all you fly by wire guys--I have invovled in RC for about 14 years and have built kits, arfs and even scratch built a couple of planes with various degrees of success. I got into RC after my son, then about 12, and I started flying a little Skyray in our cul de sac. It's funny how the mail boxes seemed to walk closer. Anyway, we went to buy a larger CL kit and got talked into an RC trainer instead. Now, after several years, I was at a local club for a War Bird Fly and there were a couple of guys flying CL models, and were having a blast.

I would like to build something with a built-up wing that would fly on one of the following engines (all RC):
AP Hornet .09
OS LA .15
Norvel .25
K&B .35

What airfoil would you recomend? Chord? Using Profili, I can draw rib templates for just about anything. I would prefer a constant chord as this would be an experiment/training build.

I would gues CG to be about 25-30% of MAC.

I am also planning a profile fuse. How long? If I used 3/8" square sticks for basic framework, would that be too heavy? (I am picturing a profile fun fly type fuse.)

Can CA hinges be used, or is fabric the best way?

Can I use an RC fuel tank with a clunk?

I have read that 50lb test stainless steel lines are recommended for most applications. Would planes as described above be too small?

How long are the lines?

Any suggestions, do's/don'ts are appreciated.

I'm really pumped about this and will try and post pics if I can get started on something.

Thanks--

Greg




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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 3:20:42 PM   
bikemike


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: St Peter, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I would suggest you start with a proven design to have a better chance at flying. control line is diffrent that rc. There are many kits that would work with the motors you have. And Tower Hobbies has a ARF for your 25 Flight Streak. I think its a great deal.

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 3:22:54 PM   
bikemike


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: St Peter, MN, USA
Status: offline 		As for lines Brodak and Sig have lines for flying avalible get a set from them.

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 3:25:56 PM   
bikemike


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: St Peter, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I also have plans for a 15 size plane called Chalenger its a great flier. Let me know through PM or email its in my info.

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 4:13:42 PM   
GrahamC


 

Posts: 548
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		First off, seeing as you are in Ohio you might want to check out some of the control line clubs. I don't know where West Chester is in relation to Clevland but there are a couple of clubs in that area. Check out their web site to get started in that area:

http://www.control-line.net/rc/flying-clubs.htm

Brodak is a good source of kits,engines, parts, etc etc. Great web site and John is now publishing a magazine called Control Line World that is very good. Sells some ARF and ARC kits that may appeal and might fit your engines. John Brodak also hosts a large control line Flyin each year. Gets good coverage in Flying Models and in various other locations around the net.

http://www.brodak.com/index.php

A good trainer for your .25 size Norvel might be the Top Flight Flight Streak ARF available from Tower hobbies. Check out their listing for this kit and you will see some recommendations for various things.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDVF3&P=7

and finally, not to knock this forum but there are other control line specific forums around.

http://www.stunthanagar.com/smf

http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php of the Barton club in the UK

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php probably one of the oldest control line forums

and some good reading, the Australian Control Line Newsletter:

http://dkd.net/clmodels/currnews.html

Of course I may be preaching to the choir and you may already know of or have run across much of that info before.

Control line flying is addictive - not better nor not as good as RC, but different. It is fun, a challenge and will add another dimension to your hobby, spice of life and all that.

cheers, Graham

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 4:57:21 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6982
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline 		You don't ever have to guess about CG. There is an accepted set of computations that have been in use in the aeroindustry forever. And you don't even have to do the computations. Just input 9 measurements and click.

There is an online application that does all the hard work for you. And it works for an existing model or something you're designing. Matter of fact, if you're desigining you can change some of your measurements and get an idea how they'll work.

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/cg_super_calc.htm

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 5:05:47 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6982
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyingGreg

I am also planning a profile fuse. How long? If I used 3/8" square sticks for basic framework, would that be too heavy? (I am picturing a profile fun fly type fuse.)

Pick an engine. The sizes are worked out from the engine you're going to use.

quote:

Can CA hinges be used, or is fabric the best way?

Heck yes, CA hinges are great.

quote:

Can I use an RC fuel tank with a clunk?

Absolutely, but there are still C/L tanks available. My closest LHS still has some in the back.

quote:

I have read that 50lb test stainless steel lines are recommended for most applications. Would planes as described above be too small?

It's not that simple and really never was. The line sizes are related to the weight of the model.

quote:

How long are the lines?

Depends on the model's speed and weight. Lightest can be around 35-40' And there is basically a max at 60' but some have done longer. But not by much. You choose your line length on the speed of the airplane ultimately.

quote:


I'm really pumped about this and will try and post pics if I can get started on something.

Thanks--

Greg


Pick up an ARF that'd work with one of your engines and have something to fly while you're building.

(in reply to FlyingGreg)
       Post #: 7

RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 5:06:14 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2473
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

I would like to build something with a built-up wing that would fly on one of the following engines (all RC):
AP Hornet .09
OS LA .15
Norvel .25
K&B .35


Almost any RC engine can be used for CL. All you need to do is wire the carb open. Here are some suggestions:

For the AP hornet or the LA .15, Brodak Flying Clown, Jr. Flite Streak, Jr. Lightnin' Streak, SIG Akromaster.

For the Norvel .25, Brodak full size Flite Streak, Super Clown, SIG Skyray 35.

For the K&B .35, the same as for .25 plus a Brodak profile Oriental.

For starting out, the Skyray .35 with the Norvel .25 or the K&B .35 flying on 60' x .015 braided lines would be hard to beat. Limit your control by using a narrow spacing at the control handle. Balance should be 20% to 25% to start. Any further back and the plane is unstable for a beginner.

You can use your clunk as is, but later you may want to plumb it for CL as you start stunting the plane.

If you know the CL guys, you may be able to borrow or buy a basic trainer plane to help you learn to fly while you are building your plane. Basic Trainers are great to learn on, but usually don't do much more than round-and-round, which you may shortly outgrow.

Welcome back to CL. BTW, many flyers do both CL and RC.

George

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/24/2007 7:34:32 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2858
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I would suggest, for all of the airplanes mentioned above, that you start out with the CG at 15% MAC.

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/25/2007 3:14:19 PM   
FlyingGreg



Posts: 583
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the suggestions. I have a couple of more questions that I forgot to ask in my original post--

How is the amount of weight on the outboard wing tip determined. I have a 1/2A Skyray that has two pennies glued on. I believe this is to counter the weight of the lines.

Just goofing around, I am putting together a 24" profile, slab wing WS 26", stab/ele 10" to fly on a the AP .09. I have 30 ft lines (not SS) from the 1/2A. Would these be long enough or should I get .15 x 60' SS. They are available at my LHS.

Thanks again.

Greg

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 10/25/2007 3:39:43 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2858
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I think the 30 ft lines will be too short and the 60 ft lines too long. Should be able to order a set of 52ft 012 lines. That will be about right.

If you get serious you need an adjustable weight box. I make mine out of plywood and put a thick piece of ply on one side. Drill and tap 1/4 x 20 and seal with a Nylon bolt. I use BB's and put them in, or take them out, five at a time. Two pennies is about right for your 1/2A Skyray.

< Message edited by Jim Thomerson -- 10/25/2007 3:44:38 PM >

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 11/2/2007 2:38:00 PM   
FlyingGreg



Posts: 583
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I am ready to give it a try. I call it the CL TLAR. (That looks about right.) Here are a few photos. The first version was so nose heavy, I decided to lengthen the fuse a full 2 inches. Now it balances about an inch back from the LE. I also replaced the 1/8: balsa tail feathers with 1/4 inch. I was a little disappointed the Cub Yellow Lustre Coate didn't cover a little better. I had prepped the surface with a dope sandable sealer. Again, this is just an experiment. I have a larger tank, but am afraid the run time will be too long, so went with a film can. I plan to fly it today on 42 foot dacron lines. Flight report to follow.

Attachments
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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 11/5/2007 4:01:23 PM   
FlyingGreg



Posts: 583
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Flight report--had difficulty getting engine (Hornet .09) to run. Finally mentioned that I had replaced the crank shaft, after a crash, and the guy helping me asked about the orientation of the cylinder sleeve. Removed it and sure enough, I had it oriented so the exhaust and intake ports were reversed. fixed the orientation and the engine jumped to life. First flight was great. Lots of line tension on about 42 feet. Large well rounded loops. I did not try inverted or outside loops. The film can tank was just about right. Started to get dizzy just as the fuel ran out. Second flight, I pulled down when I should have pulled "up" and in she went. Cleanly broke off outside wing. Seasoned CL guys that were watching told me it could probably fly just fine, with just half a wing! Since I had already wound up the lines, I didn't try. Have repaired the wing and am looking foward to calm weather for additional flights. BTW, the Hornet with its stock muffler is exremely quiet. I might try a CL plane with E power if I can figure a way out to cut off the battery before it draws down too far.

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 11/5/2007 8:27:44 PM   
cutaway


 

Posts: 344
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Lake Worth, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Yea, that plane looks like it would fly on half a wing. I've done it many times when a wing was wrecked in the middle of a combat match.

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RE: Getting Excited about CL--Again! - 11/5/2007 11:24:42 PM   
R8893