Composites have no place in 424  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pylon Universe - RC Pylon Racing >> Q-500 Racing >> Composites have no place in 424
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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 5:47:33 AM   
jprge C.


 

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Hello,
I am going to say my piece and then stand back. I am getting into pylon Q-500 racing and have just moved to the east coast. Actually we are not done yet moving.
Anyway I think that the rule of banning composites is a great start to help 424 get going acrross the country. The Scat Cat, Dodger, Racer II, and Reveloutions are great airplanes. Flying in 424 is an all thumbs event. No need for the $300 plus airplanes. I have nothing against guys bringing out new planes, but I don't care how cheap they are. Guys should learn all the basics of building and flying in this event.
One last point, why are the posts for the Smasher and Sweat Pea allowed? These are the most flagrent cases of plugging I have ever seen. If the "moderators" are going to follow the rules and enforce them here, then fair is fair. If we can't close our own threads because it is "not in the rules" so be it. But plugging is specifically banned. PULL THE THREADS!

Jorge
       Post #: 1

Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 6:05:57 AM   
PylonWorld



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jprge C.
Hello,
I am going to say my piece and then stand back. I am getting into pylon Q-500 racing and have just moved to the east coast. Actually we are not done yet moving.
Anyway I think that the rule of banning composites is a great start to help 424 get going acrross the country. The Scat Cat, Dodger, Racer II, and Reveloutions are great airplanes. Flying in 424 is an all thumbs event. No need for the $300 plus airplanes. I have nothing against guys bringing out new planes, but I don't care how cheap they are. Guys should learn all the basics of building and flying in this event.
One last point, why are the posts for the Smasher and Sweat Pea allowed? These are the most flagrent cases of plugging I have ever seen. If the "moderators" are going to follow the rules and enforce them here, then fair is fair. If we can't close our own threads because it is "not in the rules" so be it. But plugging is specifically banned. PULL THE THREADS!

Jorge
[/QUOTE]

>>> The Scat Cat, Dodger, Racer II, and Reveloutions are great airplanes. <<<

The Scat Cat and the Doddger are no longer available. The ReVlution is a prebuilt ARC. The Racer II is the only available "kit" in that list.

424 has surged primarily because an ARF became available in the $110-130 range. The Predator is the most common plane used in 424 today and it is an ARF, not a kit.

Racing is not about building skill. There has NEVER been a builder of the model rule since Goodyear (F1) was established as an AMA official event in the 60's. Go to almost any 428 or 422 race and you will see that 90% or more of the planes are built by someone else other than the person doing the flying.

Some of us still work at producing our own planes. Dan Kane is a prolific designer. His Pole Cat is produced by Bruce DeChastel, but Dan did the design and plug work. Lyle Larson is a prolific designer. However, most designers and builders have not shared their techniques, especially for composites.

My threads about the Smasher and the Swee' Pea are providing a glimpse into techniques, both for woodies and composites. I've received a lot of compliments on the Smasher thread for showing how I made my jig. In the Swee' Pea thread, I'm showing how to make a composite tail.

The most popular threads in this forum have involved techniques, like skinned hinges, glassed tailed, etc. Michael Luvara's threads about his composite Tsunami were some of the most viewed threads in these forums.

This forum is about sharing information. We allow a certain amount of lenience in this forum because our sport is so specialized. The threads from Vector and [url]www.lcsperformance.com[/url] have announced new products. Bill Vargas' threads about doing skinned hinges on a tail have "Racer II" emblazoned on them. Do we pull those, also? If you don't want to read a thread, then don't.

< Message edited by PylonWorld -- Mar 28 2003 1:28AM >


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My thoughts - 3/28/2003 6:42:33 AM   
jprge C.


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Lock Haven, PA,
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Hello,
OK maybe a post about a product is fine, but you have to admit, you and others are plugging on here. My point is if a moderator says they are going to follow it to the letter, than do it OR what I would like to see is let the guys plug their stuff and if someone wants to pull their thread let them do that do.
To be honest, I have learned a lot on here from reading about the carbon gear, skinned hinges and how you build your planes. Just don't have a moderator come on here and say they are going to follow the rules to the letter and then look the other way. To me that throws the credibility of the whole forum out the window!

Jorge

(in reply to jprge C.)
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Re: Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 7:23:45 AM   
Bill Vargas



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jprge C.
Hello,
I am going to say my piece and then stand back. I am getting into pylon Q-500 racing and have just moved to the east coast.

Anyway I think that the rule of banning composites is a great start to help 424 get going acrross the country. The Scat Cat, Dodger, Racer II, and Reveloutions are great airplanes. Flying in 424 is an all thumbs event. No need for the $300 plus airplanes. I have nothing against guys bringing out new planes, but I don't care how cheap they are. Guys should learn all the basics of building and flying in this event.

Jorge
[/QUOTE]


I agree.

424 is suppose to be an all Balsa/Foam event


BV

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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 7:37:56 AM   
PylonWorld



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by js3
...

I can't speak for others who contribute to the pylon forums, but I would be quite upset if posts and thoughts that I had taken the time to write were simply gone because the originator of the thread didn't want the topic to go on any longer. Threads evolve over time especially in the pylon forums.

This thread is valuable because of the various opinions expressed here. The threat that posts and entire threads will be deleted greatly discourages people from contributing. Why bother when it will end up in the tank anyway?

...
[/QUOTE]

This says it as well as it can be said ... Threads belong to the people who participate and view them. It is not fair to delete whole threads because the originator decides that they don't like any turns the thread may take. It has NEVER been RCU policy. Some boards do allow it, but not here.

Anyone who posts a message here can edit the message at any time. Unless it has been quoted, and that usually takes a few "did I regret saying that" minutes, at the minimum.

Art's message was as much about personal attacks as anything. Pokes in fun are ok, as long as it is obvious that they are in fun. Anything else is going to be deleted, or nuked for further review. "Nuking" is a feature that moderators can use to hide a message. They may consult with other moderators to see if the post should be restored, or if it is over the line. I "Nuked" a message in another thread because it is borderline, and I'm getting a second opinion.

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Re: Re: Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 7:41:22 AM   
PylonWorld



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Vargas
I agree.

424 is suppose to be an all Balsa/Foam event


BV
[/QUOTE]

Hey BV,

Every composite I know of is built from balsa, foam ... and fiberglass and carbon fiber.

Oh, yea ... fiberglass and carbon fiber are allowed in 424 planes ... right?

Somehow I missed that rule ... can you quote it for me?

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Don Stegall
RCPRO Chairman of the Board

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APRA Rules - 3/28/2003 8:37:39 AM   
Bill Vargas



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Why surely,,, its listed over there at the [url]www.NMPRA.org[/url] website. APRA Rules seem to be the standard these days,,, wouldn t you think?

BV

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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 8:42:59 AM   
PylonWorld



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APRA ... doesn't that stand for ARIZONA PYLON RACING ASSOCIATION

In fact, most groups are not using the APRA rules. There are more groups using their own rules than there are groups using the APRA rules. Many groups allow ONLY the Thunder Tiger Pro 40 these days. And ooooo, some even allow all molded composites.



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Don Stegall
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Nepro - 3/28/2003 8:47:42 AM   
Bill Vargas



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[url]www.nepro.org[/url] has the samething

BV

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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 8:51:02 AM   
PylonWorld



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NEPRO only allows the TT Pro 40, doesn't have an engine claiming rule, and doesn't do the handicapping thing ... Next

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Sempra??? - 3/28/2003 8:56:46 AM   
Bill Vargas



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I don t know what happened to the sempra site.

But anyways, AMA rules are behind times and need to get on the same program as other organizations,, IE., NO Composites wings or tails in 424.

C/F and F/B between the balsa sheeting and FOAM core are there for structural integrity purposes.



BV

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If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 8:58:13 AM   
Bill Vargas



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PylonWorld
NEPRO only allows the TT Pro 40, doesn't have an engine claiming rule, and doesn't do the handicapping thing ... Next [/QUOTE]

This is about Composite molded wings,,, NOT ENGINES,,, stay on topic please!


BV

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If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 9:35:51 AM   
Bill Vargas



Posts: 1542
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Team Coldies, CA, USA
Status: online
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PylonWorld
In fact, most groups are not using the APRA rules. There are more groups using their own rules than there are groups using the APRA rules. Many groups allow ONLY the Thunder Tiger Pro 40 these days. And ooooo, some even allow all molded composites.

[/QUOTE]


Yes thats fine too,,, Racing is Racing and no doubt its fun! But if those groups would support APRA or NEPRO (No Composite Rules) and don t forget about NMPRA, we'd have more people following and supporting the same set of rules and organizations. If by chance when that happens, then perhaps 424 will have a voice and Race at the NATS???

More people on the same sheet of Racing,,, More fun for all


ok, thats it,,, I need another "coldie"



BV
NMPRA 41C

< Message edited by Bill Vargas -- Mar 28 2003 4:46AM >


_____________________________

If it ain't leaking oil, then something's wrong,,, USMC, RETIRED!

(in reply to jprge C.)
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Composites have no place in 424 - 3/28/2003 10:05:57 AM