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Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/29/2007 5:10:49 AM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Got the coax heli's all mastered indoors and out this Summer. Trying to baby
step my HBFP. Started to hover it then took it a small distance left, then right.
Then forward about 20 yards out. When I try to fly it in a circuit. It rolls quickly
from side to side and it is difficult to recover it before it crashes. I'm trying to
figure out how much of the dumb thumbs I have and also if I'm over compansanting
the sticks too much. The HBFP doesn't seem to want to fly as level as the coax heli's
do. I can start it off the ground fine, hove it, then take it our a ways. At that thing it
starts having a mind of it's own. I'm flying when it's calm too.

Got any pointers and suggestions on how to be a better flyer with the HBFP? Does the
CP2 fly better? Ihave the CP2 and a HBK2, but don't want to get them airborn until I
can get more experience and confidence with the HBFP.
       Post #: 1

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/29/2007 7:26:28 AM   
shizack


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline 		Keep those CP birds in the nest (or use them as RADD's trainers) until you're comfortable doing circuits and hovering in all orientations with the FP.

A coax has a natural tendency to "auto-level" itself. Not so with a sigle-rotor heli. The FP has some lift built into the blades, and is easier to level than a CP. The CPs will "slide" into the ground quickly if you don't have good recovery skills. This is one place (of many) that a sim shows it's value. If you have a sim, practice heavily on the same type circuit you're trying to fly. If you don't have one, just take it slow. It'll come to you.

Keep in mind that with a single-rotor, you pretty much have to command it into any position it needs to be. For example, making a CCW circle, as it turns left and comes back toward you, you usually have to give a little right cyclic to bring it back upright. Always FLY THE NOSE. Don't look at the patterns your tracking tape makes while the rotors spin, and don't admire the pretty decals on the canopy. Use the sticks to keep that nose pointed in the direction it needs to go.

I find myself flying erratically now and then, and it's almost always because I'm losing focus and flying the tail or even flying the skids.

Will it hover hands-free at all? Any halfway-decently set up heli will hover hands-free for at least a second or two. It'll wander a bit, but it shouldn't dive aggressively in any direction.

Drill yourself on getting back to tail-in instantly as soon as thing start to look hairy. Don't try to fly out of trouble unless you have to.

Check the CG and make sure the swash is level. If all is well in this department, try again and let us know how it goes.

(in reply to high flyer 777)
       Post #: 2

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/29/2007 7:41:26 AM   
shizack


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline 		As for the other part of your question (Do the CPs fly better), well, they can. However, you have to have the skills necessary to make them do it.

I had a CP2 and it was nothing short of a nightmare (look up "sticky collective" . WAY too much involved in getting it to fly, and squirrely as a BB on a beach ball. The King, on the other hand, has been a joy in comparison. I had an MX400 for a short while, and the King is just as stable and far more trailer-park friendly. Many have called it a miniature Trex. If I had both a CP2 and a King, I'd sell the CP2 and use the dough to get a brushless upgrade and HH gyro. I'm not advising you to do this; I just don't want to go there again. As always, YMMV.

(in reply to shizack)
       Post #: 3

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/29/2007 4:15:19 PM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Fantastic feed backup & opinion! Thanks much. I thought that I was loosing it.
I think I got the point. Take small steps and use a sim. The heli has a very
balanced CG, level swashplate, & will hove hands free for a second or two.
I have worked on trying to get to nose in hover when I get in trouble.
Sometimes the heli is going so fast that it is split second timing to try to get
it back under control. Guess I need to get it to slow down on the forward
flight on the sticks.
You're right on on flying the nose of the heli and I have heard the same
comments about the CP2 & the HBK2. Fact is I really have only heard
praise about the K2. If it has an upgraded motor. The only thing I really hear
about is set-up questions with the K2.
Really appreciate your insight & time. I live in MN and I am counting the
flying hours left here. Today is good! 60 degrees and no wind!!!

(in reply to shizack)
       Post #: 4

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/29/2007 4:26:19 PM   
USHobbySupply


 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Takoma Park, MD, USA
Status: offline 		IMHO you have taken the best next step up from a coax. Yes, the are alot more touchy than any COAX.
The CP's are even worse, and require that much more setup.

Keep practicing watching the nose. Its a good technique.

You can try adding extra fly-bar weights to slow the reaction time down and to give a little more stable bird.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

_____________________________

Michael Bernstein, President, USHobbySupply
Please PM me if I miss you question in a thread

(in reply to high flyer 777)
       Post #: 5

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/30/2007 5:44:47 AM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		The FP has 2 weights. I notice that the CP2's have 2 weights on each fly bar. One on
the inside next to the ball link and one next to the paddle.
Would it make a diff. to calm down the FP with 2 weights. Guess I could have just
tried it, but thought I'd ask.

(in reply to USHobbySupply)
       Post #: 6

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/30/2007 7:36:54 AM   
shizack


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline 		Ahhh, the much-argued flybar weights...
I didn't realize you hade those on. At the relatively low headspeed of the FP, the weights will make the heli difficult to control in forward flight. They can help maintain a stable hover, but to me when flying around they made the heli fly like a drunk monkey. They slow cyclic response down considerably. It's way too easy to over-correct with the weights.

My advice is to move the weights in towards the paddle control frame. Start with about halfway and get closer to the center from there. Make sure you measure the distance from the paddle control frame to the weights - they have to be exactly the same distance.

You may even try moving them all the way in or removing them entirely. You will have a noticeably "crisper" handling bird without them. My first step after removing the training gear was completely removing the weights. Admittedly, I had SuperSkids©, and they added stability.

Again, YMMV.

(in reply to high flyer 777)
       Post #: 7

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/30/2007 2:56:42 PM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I'll try that with the weights. I did install Super Skids on this heli. A must for
durability & looks too. To get the CG I had to put the battery all the way forward
into the canopy. Hovering nose in is no problem. 90 degree hovering to the left
and to the right is no problem either. I just have to proceed from that learning
curve.

(in reply to shizack)
       Post #: 8

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/30/2007 4:47:17 PM   
KCinNC



Posts: 421
Joined: 8/4/2007
From: LKN, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: high flyer 777

I'll try that with the weights. I did install Super Skids on this heli. A must for
durability & looks too. To get the CG I had to put the battery all the way forward
into the canopy. Hovering nose in is no problem. 90 degree hovering to the left
and to the right is no problem either. I just have to proceed from that learning
curve.


i've heard of people flying circuits before than can even do any nose in hovering....looks like you got the hard part covered

(in reply to high flyer 777)
       Post #: 9

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/30/2007 7:46:46 PM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Hmm, I figured & read that you should nose in hover first. Cause you always start & end all your flying with
hovering. My problem is to bring the heli back under control to a hover when I'm trying to do a circle
or 1/2 of a figure 8. Guess that always made me feel comfortable when learning my coax heli's when
no matter how far away, or how high in the air they were, I would hover it if I was loosing control or
orientation. That's what I have to get into my head with the HBFP. I can nose it in fly it without trouble.
It's flying it in the 3-6 & 6-9 o'clock position that I don't have control yet. 9-12 & 12-3 I've got down.
When the HBPF tilts and dips to the sides, that's when I get into trouble. Trying to get it back into my
control. Seems it really speeds up when this happens. Probably my thumbs. Must be a brain blockage with me?

(in reply to KCinNC)
       Post #: 10

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/30/2007 11:27:54 PM   
shizack


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah...move those weights all the way in or take them off. If you've got the 'Skids, you should be all right.

Later on, when you've got it all under control, you can take the 'Skids off. It hurt me to remove the beloved SuperSkids, but the 'Bee absolutely loves the lower weight and higher vertical CG. You will end up spending a few bucks now and then on replacement stock skids (get the Blade CP skids - more durable and available at the LHS), but the increased maneuverability is worth it. Plus, the lower parts of the SSkids bolt right onto the King for when (not if) you break the King's skids.

(in reply to high flyer 777)
       Post #: 11

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/31/2007 12:45:46 AM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		So with the weights moved in next to the ball links, or removed, the heli will not
have so much tilt or dip and will fly more level?

(in reply to shizack)
       Post #: 12

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/31/2007 1:21:43 AM   
shizack


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline 		Quote: "So with the weights moved in next to the ball links, or removed, the heli will not have so much tilt or dip (correct) and will fly more level (not necessarily)?"

It will hover more level with the weights out toward the paddles. The weights have the effect of trying to keep the plane of the blades where it is at a given point in time. That's why it wants to keep rolling over in a banked turn. The more inward you move the weights, the more the blades have a tendency to bring themselves back to parallel with the ground.

Weights on - you move the cyclic, and the rotors slowly try to go back to parallel. That's why they induce over-correcting in forward or sideways flight. It also takes more stick movement to get the rotors to bank to begin with. Mushy cyclic.

Weights off (or all the way in) - you move the cyclic, and the rotors try to get back to parallel more quickly. It'll feel more "twitchy' at first, but that's really what you want. Smaller stick movements have a greater effect on rotor tilt. Crisper cyclic.

Do you still use training gear? If so, leave them on and remove the weights. If you can handle it well without the weights, take off the training gear for some test hovers. If that's manageable, you're ready to cut off your ponytail, young padawan.

There's not much automatic about single rotor helis. Flying a coax is like balancing a Rubik's cube on top of another. Flying a single-rotor is like balancing a beach ball on top of another.

(in reply to high flyer 777)
       Post #: 13

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/31/2007 1:38:07 AM   
shizack


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline 		Just thought of something...You have a King just sitting in the hangar. Take the flybar and paddles from the King and install them on the FP. The King paddles are threaded and screwed on, so don't try to pull them straight off after you loosen the grub screws. Don't take the weights off of the plastic pieces in the center of the King's head. Don't install the weights from the FP. The weighted paddles from the King kind of make a middle ground between using and not using the FP's weights. It's a slightly tight fit, but it will go in. I flew mine like that once, just to see if it could be done. It can. Next time I need a FP flybar I'm probably going to get a King bar and CF (non-weighted) paddles.

Careful, though - if you crash, you may need to order a new King flybar if it bends beyond repair.

(in reply to shizack)
       Post #: 14

RE: Working on my HBFP flying skills - 10/31/2007 1:51:02 AM   
high flyer 777


 

Posts: 553
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Blo