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Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 1:40 AM   
Stick40



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Status: offline 		I saw Sean D Tucker do this manuver in his little red bipe at oshkosh this past year and it is a amazing stunt. Its like a vertical flatspin. Has anyone done this with there model. Ive tried it a little with my UCD 46 but it wont go over for the second rotation. Thanks for reading

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 1:56 AM   
bubbagates



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Status: offline 		Not sure what you mean

Are you refering to a Knife Edge spin where the wings are vertical and the plane is falling and spinning around it's CG


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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 3:51 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		Like an ultra tight KE loop after hammerhead?

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 5:44 AM   
bubbagates



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quote:

ORIGINAL: nitro wing

Like an ultra tight KE loop after hammerhead?

Kinda what I was thinking he is talking about. Very cool to see and do


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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 8:32 AM   
Cenetix



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Status: offline 		Well I've been reading this website for a while now, I figured it's time to post something! I'm a huge SDT fan. I've been trying to mimic this manuever for a while with my SU-31, but I can't seem to get it down! Here's a video I found. I'm sure there are hundreds more out there. Watch this video. You can skip to 1 min 40 secs if you want to and you'll get right to the meat. I still can't believe an airplane can do this!

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 8:50 AM   
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Status: offline 		Good video, anyway, that's called a pin wheel. Remember those little wheels you played with when you were a kid ( I know we still are ) that were air driven.

Here is a Wildhare Edge 540 doing it. It's uploading now and should be done in about 10 minutes from the time I posted this

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/video/dod_wildhare_edge_540T_kevin.wmv

It's at 3:35


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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/4/2007 8:56 PM   
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Status: offline 		What you describes sound a lot like Gloster test pilot Janusz Żurakowski's cartwheel, a 1 1/2 turn hammerhead.

Here is a link to the story below Zurakowski

"While test flying the Meteor, Jan also developed the first new aerobatic manoever in about 20 years termed the "Zurabatic Cartwheel". The story goes that sometimes during exceedingly tedious "lectures" and wrangling meetings with the engineers, his mind would drift to aerobatics. A new test of the Meteor ground-attack version involved carrying four bombs far out on wings of the Meteor. Jan realized that with the weight of the engines so far out from centre on the Meteor, that this would cause some interesting effects if one engine was cut while the other was at full power. Taking his slide rule from his pocket, he spun up some numbers and concluded that something unheard of might be accomplished.

He soon put his theory to the test in the air. With a late model Meteor, loaded with these bombs, Jan put the nose down at full power, then pulled to the vertical. Nearing zero airspeed he simultaneously cut one engine, and kicked full rudder into the dead one, leaving the other at full howling power. The asymetric thrust, coupled with the inertia provided by the bomb weight so far out on the wings, made the Meteor rotate on its side through a complete one and one-half turns, ending up doing a cartwheel laterally and pointing down at the ground. Needless to say this was a real crowd-pleaser and gained “Zura” real fame. "

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/5/2007 3:16 AM   
YNOT



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Status: offline 		The full scale peoples do not like using the same names for the tricks as we do.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/5/2007 3:36 AM   
Stick40



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Status: offline 		Thanks for the responces! What is the best way to go about doing this manuver? I ve tried a verital climb to hover then full throttle and rudder and it wont go all the way around.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/5/2007 3:57 AM   
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Status: offline 		Do a regular hammer head,usually you drop over the top with no or little power,get all the rudder you possibly can,and power up during rotation to the side.You may need to time burst of power so the plane does not fly out .Use a prop that has low pitch, to give you lots of instant thrust on spool up.Of course only certain planes will do this for you.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/5/2007 5:00 AM   
YNOT



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Status: offline 		Sick 40 will not do it.

Most 3D planes will not do them. Best bet will be a foamy or a Profile.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/5/2007 5:54 AM   
Stick40



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Status: offline 		I know my stick 40 wont do a pinwheel, but it will hover! Im doing the 3d flying with my UCD3D 46 which will do most of anything. Im starting to belive the tail moment is simply to long on this plane to get that good "kick" to go around.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/6/2007 11:34 AM   
Spacey



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Status: offline 		Like YNOT said...all these planes that claim their 3D planes definitely won't do them. Hehehehehe. Now my little 47" OMP Yak-54 will do them crazy! My record to date is a 3,5 turn pinwheel but the sun, moon and Eifel tower needs to be aligned for that one. I'm sure there are alot of planes out that will do it though but you need something with a silly rudder, shortish tail like mentioned and definitely alot of torque and thrust to get it kicking. Just rudder and throttle won't do it either from my experience on all the three planes I've flown that I've been able to get to do it. A little down elevator coupled with a crossing aileron to rudder input usually gets it whipping, kinda like the vertical flat spin thing described earlier.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/6/2007 5:36 PM   
Stick40



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Status: offline 		A profile or some thing would do it nicley but it looks so much better on a plane with a 3d fuse

Stick 40

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 11/6/2007 6:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		As with any maneuver timing is key to get this done. You cannot be stopped completely at the top unless you have gobs and I mean gobs of extra power as well as loads of rudder throw and extra servo power. Soft rudder power will allow the rudder to be blown back as the tail comes around under power and you can see this happen as the rudder goes around, you'll see the tail straighten out a bit. I'd agree long tail moments have a much harder time doing this but the UCD has the same tail moment as the 33% Edge in the video and the Edge brings the tail around and it's not that overpowered. It hovers close to 3/4th throttle but has dbl the servo power required for "normal" 3D

As described, you need to come over the top in the hammer and then add power just as the nose is pointing straight down, be ready for the torque to pull it out hard to the left as well as roll it to the left. Now if you took the time to properly trim your plane, torque will have little effect, but if you have not trimmed your plane (thrust angles and such) then be ready to counter with a little right aileron but leave the rudder alone and you want to do them to the left since the torque will help a lot. You may also have to work the elevator depending on your up/down thrust and if you wings were perfectly vertical in the hammer. It's also best to do the into the wind, it helps keep the wings vertical.

If you watch the video I posted earlier on the Edge, look very closely at the surfaces and what they are doing.

Like learning any other 3D maneuver, burn lots of fuel.


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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 10/1/2012 11:20 PM   
pwright


 

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Status: offline 		I see this is a very old string, but maybe it's still relevent. First of all, the double hammerhead is NOT a hammerhead (or stall turn) at all, it's a FLAT SPIN occuring vertically instead of horizontally. The stick inputs are almost identical. Here's how to fly a double hammerhead with an RC plane. A. Setup must a 3d setup...plenty of extra power and lots of throw, especially on the rudder and elevator (it helps if you have a plane with a short tail moment such as a pitts or an ultimate, but an extra will do it too). B. Fly upwards at about an 80 degree angle (away from you). C. Cut the power back just enough to establish a hover, and hold it for a moment. D. Simulaneously, apply full left rudder, full up elevator, full left aileron and full power. E. As the plane whips around to almost nose down, apply right aileron, then quickly back left to keep the plane from flattening out. Now, cut the power, center the rudder and elevator, and use the ailerons to roll the plane so you are looking at the canopy. The whole trick is with the amount and timing on the ailerons. It took a long long (did I say long) long time to figure out this trick, but now I can do them all day long. Good luck.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 10/2/2012 3:49 PM   
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Status: offline 		thats sounds more like a pinwheel. Too me a double hammerhead is also the same as rocking the craddle. It's done by doing a stall turn at both ends of the runway.
A very very pretty manuver.

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 12/27/2012 3:51 AM   
airraptor


 

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Status: offline 		check out this video. look at the 2:55 mark. this is the one I want to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1idP3QF6Y&list=FL0QX7lUwmosAvDpoo4TS0Iw&feature=mh_lolz

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 12/28/2012 3:53 AM   
Bill Clark


 

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Status: offline 		I have thought about this maneuver and tried it a few times but concluded our rc planes dont carry energy like the full scales. to me this means without the help of this energy would require extremely precise control inputs while the plane is moving backwards, forwards and sideways through the maneuver. certainly there has been many an accomplished rc pilot who has attempted this without success. although the profile from above may have pulled off something that resembled it, it probably lacked the graceful combination of inertia and stick inputs

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 12/28/2012 7:25 AM   
nitro wing


 

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Status: offline 		some call it pop top
its done in rc quite often now

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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 12/28/2012 12:47 PM   
Bill Clark


 

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oops, I was responding to the original post of the craft being vertical (double stall turn) not horizontal (pop top).



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RE: Double Hammer Head? - 12/28/2012 12:57 PM   
bubbagates



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quote:

ORIGINAL: airraptor

check out this video. look at the 2:55 mark. this is the one I want to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1idP3QF6Y&list=FL0QX7lUwmosAvDpoo4TS0Iw&feature=mh_lolz

Now that is how to properly wring out a full scale biplane


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