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RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/9/2008 7:04:16 PM   
Dean Pappas


 

Posts: 163
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: South Plainfield, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Looking good Nic!
I need to come pay you a visit sometime soon and pick up that short-kit.

later,
Dean Pappas

(in reply to BobHH)
       Post #: 176

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/9/2008 10:40:36 PM   
WEDJ



Posts: 842
Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		You got it!

(in reply to Dean Pappas)
       Post #: 177

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/9/2008 10:43:01 PM   
WEDJ



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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_Purcha

Good morning eh, one question as I review your build thread.

Did I miss any mention of what you used to seal the wood before applying the Minwax Polycrylic and fibreglass cloth to the wing and fuselage? On Jeff's thread on the Aurora he is using dope, others have mentioned sanding sealer to coat the balsa before applying the minwax. Other wise the balsa would swell from the water based minwax (so I have read).

Jim


I did nothing but 320 sanding on the balsa. I put the cloth down first, then the minwax, and wipe it off. I haven't noticed any swelling. It might be more noticeable on the control surfaces, however. I'll keep everyone posted!

(in reply to Jim_Purcha)
       Post #: 178

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/9/2008 10:44:13 PM   
WEDJ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobHH

Nic, I have never used the Minwax method but have heard of it. I've done the resin method and like you can't stand the smell!! In your opinion is the finished product just as good as the resin method? This would include hardness, sandability, and ease of putting a laquer base overcoat on. Any issues you've run across? Sounds like there is no weight difference I can see.

Thanks,

Bob Harris



I used to love the resin finish, but didn't like the smell. When I start sanding and painting, we'll see.

(in reply to BobHH)
       Post #: 179

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/9/2008 10:45:18 PM   
WEDJ



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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aerowoof

I was under the understanding that the water based poly's are not glow fuel proof and that the oil based poly's are resetant to abiout 15% nitro.I was going to use the oil base for glassing as I used it over some white latex on some panellg in the house and it dried real hard almost scrath proof.surface feels as hard as if it was coated with polyesrer resin.Have I been mis imformed?


I won't give it a chance, the paint will be Klass Kote Epoxy

(in reply to aerowoof)
       Post #: 180

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/11/2008 4:46:41 AM   
WEDJ



Posts: 842
Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Sanding update

Hu Boy! This is different from Polyester resin.

Let's start with the fuel hatch. It's only 3x5 inches. Now I admit, I did a quick sanding job on the balsa, it could have been smoother. I put a coat of glass, then 3 coats of Polycrylic, and let it set for 3 days to cure.

Dry sand 400 grit - very draggy, loads up the paper. Just like other acrylics. Then I went to 400 grit wet. Sanded fine, made cloudy water, didn't clog the paper, it remined me of the old days. EXCEPT - it doesn't sand down as fast as the polyester used to. I spent 10 minutes on only 15 square inches of finish. And that only brought me down to about 80% dull area. Now, some of it is me, I did the hatch quick, and it has some ups and downs. But I think this finish is harder than the old poly. Good for the plane, bad for the person sanding.

Well, I'm committed to this finish, so we will carry on. I will go to 320 wet to do the body, I hope that will help. Also, I am leaving the finish less than perfect, because I think the Epoxy primer will cover up better and sand easier. Tonight the second coat of finish went on the body.

Oh, I almost forgot - after the first coat on the body dried for 2 days, i scuffed the overlap areas with 100 grit dry. It powdered up OK, and softened the edge, but felt draggy, but didn't bind the paper. So the overlap edges were smoothed before tonight's coat of finish.

Also, I had one drip spot, that stayed like a drop, and was cloudy and soft. An Xacto snip and 100-grit scuff and it was gone. It was at the tip of the rudder.

There's no photos, because they didn't really show ANYTHING, much less the subtle differences I am trying to explain.


(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 181

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/11/2008 8:12:53 PM   
sugarfox


 

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Joined: 1/6/2002
From: indianapolis, IN, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA
Status: offline 		Hey Guys, just a note to reinforce that you must seal the wood before using MinnWax. Last summer I was glassing an Enforcer and was working on the huge sheet fins. Without thinking or reading any instructions I proceded to apply the cloth using a thin coat of minn wax. Left to dry overnite, guess what I saw the next morning. What the hel -----l happened here???? Warped like you wouldn't believe. I knew the minn wax was water based but just didn't think. Thats what I get for going off half cocked. Anyway, seal everything first and minn wax will work fine............sugarfox

(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 182

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/12/2008 2:17:58 PM   
WEDJ



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quote:

ORIGINAL: sugarfox

Hey Guys, just a note to reinforce that you must seal the wood before using MinnWax. Last summer I was glassing an Enforcer and was working on the huge sheet fins. Without thinking or reading any instructions I proceded to apply the cloth using a thin coat of minn wax. Left to dry overnite, guess what I saw the next morning. What the hel -----l happened here???? Warped like you wouldn't believe. I knew the minn wax was water based but just didn't think. Thats what I get for going off half cocked. Anyway, seal everything first and minn wax will work fine............sugarfox


How interesting! I guess the body is rigid enough to not be a problem. I'll take your advice and put a coat of clear dope on the control surfaces. Can't hurt.

(in reply to sugarfox)
       Post #: 183

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/13/2008 3:50:15 PM   
WEDJ



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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		OK, second coat of polyacrylic is on the body, and has had a chance to dry for several days. Weight gain: 1 ounce.

Been working on the hatch, after that sanding episode. Sprayed White laquer primer, then sanded. Put auto glazing putty on the low spots, sanded, shot second coat of primer. glazing on the remaining spots, then sanded down with 320 wet. Shot last coat of primer this morning, when that dries, I will give it a light sandingof 400 wet, and it's ready for paint.

Maybe I'll hit it with a coat of epoxy primer, maybe not. Depends on the 400 sanding.

I think I will stop the minwax on the body with this coat. The primer is MUCH easier to sand, and weighs less. There is enough polycrylic to really stick and seal the f'glass, and that's all it needs to do. Unlike the "old stuff", this is harder and heavier. At this point, primer is the better choice.

(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 184

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 1/23/2008 2:00:17 PM   
WEDJ



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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Hi all,

No, I haven't done anything for over a week now. I am at a national sales meeting since last saturday. But it's in Orlando, so it's not all bad.

My wing covering has come in, I'm still waiting for epoxolite.

Need to do:
cover control surfaces
cover wing
wet sand body
fillets
shoot primer sand, sand, sand.

(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 185

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 2/1/2008 2:22:14 AM   
WEDJ



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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		I'm back!

I have sanded the body with 320 wet, a pretty easy task, took maybe about 2 hours altogether. This stuff really dulls the sandpaper, change it often! Now, mind you, I'm not looking for a really smooth finish here, just getting the finish down to the cloth. If you look at the shiny vs dull ratio, it's about 75% dull. I'm thinking it will be easier to sand primer than the Minwax, so why waste time on the hard stuff? In the past, I would have given it another coat of resin, then sanded again to get a really smooth finish.

So here's what it looks like.

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(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 186

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 2/1/2008 2:25:26 AM   
WEDJ



Posts: 842
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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		So now I'm ready for primer. As I said, I am using Klass Kote epoxy finish. Stuff smells just like the K&B from 20 years ago. I'm hoping it will work the same way, too. The K&B primer would make good volume, light, and sand away like a dream. Oh, in the background, you can see I got some dope for the control surfaces to prevent warps.

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< Message edited by WEDJ -- 2/1/2008 2:26:20 AM >

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       Post #: 187

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 2/1/2008 2:31:37 AM   
WEDJ



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From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		And now the moment of truth - opening the epoxy, mixing, and applying. Since this is a first base coat, I decided to do yet another experiment. How about brushing on the first coat? If it sands as easy as I remember, the brush ridges will not be a problem. It would save having to clean the sprayer, etc, and still do what I want, fill the low spots. So that's what I did. Experimental surface - 1/2 of the stab. Mixed equal parts of A + B, and brushed the bottom. Too thick for comfort. Added 1 part reducer, and it brushed the top of the stab great. That's the photo you see, and the brush, etc. is in the spray booth so the fumes will exit to my garage.

Yet another note to self, epoxy paint will dissolve a plastic cup!

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(in reply to WEDJ)
       Post #: 188

RE: PassTime Perigee Build thread - 2/2/2008 1:26:07 AM   
WEDJ



Posts: 842
Joined: 2/21/2007
From: East Haddam, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Well, tonight was the happy ending of the experiment. First, the bottom side, full-strength primer painted on.
Conclusion: Too much thickness to sand off to get to the base. But it worked.

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