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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/17/2007 4:48 PM   
vertigo performance



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Status: offline 		I would suggest the same reason people see very little difference in any small modification.. Lets use racing as an example, a Millisecond makes a difference in racing, full size or RC. Any small change may not be noticed unless you are using a timing system. Subtle differences. I am not trying to pick on you here but being an engineer and playing with numbers doesn't always make the answer right. Example of this is I worked in the logging industry for allot of years, every now and then a hot shot engineer would come fresh out of school to the site with his calculator, we would all have to listen to him and in the end his theories often didn't work because real world isn't a perfect science and we would go back the way it was done for 50 years.

The next time you take your Baja out see if you can tell the difference of the way it drives after 5 minutes in the dirt, you may not but there will be because those few grams of dirt in a rim are going to change things and to have it on a track with a timing system would be the only way to know.

A V Stack like anything is only a link in a chain of modifications that add up to more power. Gabe needs to step in here and explain more because we are all speaking of experience and theories but the true answer is going to come from the guy who has been racing, building and designing 2 Strokes for the past 20 years.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/17/2007 4:50 PM   
vertigo performance



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Status: offline 		The thread is about Gabe Browns engine which has a V Stack and a Pipe on it.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/17/2007 7:55 PM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		GBE is making a new line of motors, a pipe, and makes a v-stack.
Gabe Brown Engineering's Motors will have a billet case


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/28/2007 6:24 AM   
K-Spindle



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Status: offline 		We sure hope GBE comes on out to the Toys for Tots race and show off the power of their motors and the quality of the bling. Time to "put up" fore we all know once the flag drops the internet chatter stops.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/28/2007 7:48 AM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		Look here for other examples of GBE's work, non RC related
http://gabebrownengineering.com/company-information/gabe-brown-engineering-sema-aftermarket-concept-cars/

You will soon find out GBE is not just another company working out of their basement, they are and have been for many years; A speed engineering company!

Who else here can say they have made parts for TRD?


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/28/2007 9:47 AM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		More to do with the velocity stack, the pipe is going to be delayed (sorry, but have you ever tried to get a new performance product out? There are delays... I see ddm is also going through this with their new pipe) We all want a product that is going to work the way it was meant to, expect delays! Because no one likes whinners
lol, I just re read some of the posts here. http://gabebrownengineering.com/company-information/order-the-gbe-velocity-stack/
This should give the people with a back ground in mechanical engineering, a clear picture!

Being an offroad car has nothing to do with the flow of air going through the carb! It does not take someone with a background in mechanical engineering to figure that out, or does it?

< Message edited by hathi -- 11/28/2007 9:50 AM >


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/28/2007 3:49 PM   
K-Spindle



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Status: offline 		Many machine shops make “race parts” for real race cars, HOWEVER hats off to GBE and any "real" shop (even at Moms House) making the commitment to produce for a small market like R/C cars.

My point here is let’s see the results on a track in a race. I think you can agree that if we as consumers just “take the word” of a MFG or a few ads or posts on an internet chat room, some companies will AND DO produce less then race worthy parts and sell them for big bucks and wild claims of speed. GBE looks to be one of the good guys but its hard to tell with a claim of speed not backed up by how and where the speed run was done. I was at the track the day the video was shot I saw the speed I heard the sound of the motor more sound then speed. There were 1:18 scale electric cars that were passing their Baja's. Can you see the red flag there? GBE may very well have hit the claimed speed but not that day not on that track. Then Richard the owner of the track was upset they stiffed him on track fees another "red flag". Let's hope they come out in force for the TFT race and lay the power down in a race, as the old saying goes what wins on Sunday sells on Monday.

The link is good please tell me HOW the GBE V Stack "speeds up airflow" under an "air Fliter" that even the best ones restricts (slows) air flow. Extra length of this stack may reduce raw gas from adhering to a foam air filter but the draw of the motor is not effected by a stack, look to porting for that.

"How do you stop reversion?

Although you can’t stop the reversion completely, simply replacing your stock stack with a Gabe Brown Engineering bolt on velocity stack will reduce reversion from your engine from 80% - 90%. The reason behind this is because most of the velocity stacks out there for the RC cars like the HPI baja 5b are nothing more than a dish or bowl. Our velocity stack actually speeds up the air flow entering the stack thus effectively increasing power through-out the powerband of the engine. Of course you will want to have your engine running at the optimum tuning to help reduce reversion even more increasing overall performance." End quote from the GBE web site.

Ok so you have an air filter that by its nature restricts airflow (slows it down as well) you have a motor sucking in air at a given rate the only two factors here for large swings or even smaller gain or loss is the carb and air filter. We do not use injectors, pumps (turbo or superchargers) to increase air volume, pressure or speed through the carb or motor. So how does the stack increase airspeed in this situation and in a 2 stroke where the "flow" is so close the the chamber that is not providing a steady demand rather spurts of draw as the motor goes through the strokes? How does increased air speed overcome the nature of the 2 stroke motor itself?

The stack may very well help in that the demand for fuel is not contaminated with "blow back" raw fuel getting re-introduced to the flow because its not stuck to the air filter as described above. BUT to the point here LETS SEE REAL RACE RESULTS.

We would welcome the GBE to set up a display at the TFT race plus the race results will bear out the true race parts or where companies can improve.

< Message edited by foxy42 -- 11/29/2007 9:26 AM >

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/28/2007 4:29 PM   
Dave ESPI



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Status: offline 		I like companies that work out of the basement at Mom's house...........

Much more personal

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 2:25 AM   
fourwheeler



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Status: offline 		OK I have stood by here and am just wondering if I am the only one that realizes that most people that run Bajas do not race them. I mean it would really be cool to get a bunch of them together and run a dirt oval or an arenacross kind of track but I figure alot of guys are like me. Stuck in the sticks and no where to race. So the only way I have to know if a part warrants my money is because of the reviews of other users. I find the normal guy to be a lot better at giving an honest review than some high priced sponsored driver. I mean if Racer-X is running an engine from "PILEOFHP" then he obviously is going to say they are the best because that is who gives him motors. But if the normal basher says "Man I just love the torque and HP of this "PILEOFHP" engine that gets my attention. So for me the better way of gauging engines is in real world hands.

I am really interested in the GBE engine and am looking forward to hearing unbiased reviews of it. I will have a new Baja SS soon and it will need an engine upgrade

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 3:54 AM   
teamchrome



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Status: offline 		I agree!!
Most of us are bashers and guys who enjoy a fun hobby.


Its nice how clean and fresh this thread is now. Its so sanitary now..
Simple info for a simple FUN hobby.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 7:24 AM   
K-Spindle



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Status: offline 		Agreed 100% of the Baja drives in the USA right now are bashers because there is no racing "yet". GBE motors could be the bomb in racing and bashing its just hard to get data you can trust. If a basher posts he loves his XYZ mod motor great and his input has value but if XYZ mod motors are winning races and the basher posts he loves his XYZ mod motor you have a better chance the post is from a basher who is having the same result of a basher turned racer.

Are there any sponsored Baja drivers? With no racing there is no need to sponsor anyone is there?

Another point here is there are no ROAR rules for large scale off-road classes so GBE motors could be written into any rules. Its our class we can do it our way

< Message edited by K-Spindle -- 11/29/2007 7:25 AM >

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 11:59 AM   
fourwheeler



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Status: offline 		I don't know if there are any sponsored factory Baja drivers. I was just making the point that if there are the opinion of those guys doesn't mean alot to me.

And so far as writing rules goes let's bear in mind that the Baja is a stretch financially for some so more than one class will be needed. Not all people can afford to run a GBE or Trevor Simpson reed engine.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 8:58 PM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		I think that there may be a few factory sponsored Baja drivers... the ones that work at HPI!
I will in no way discredit anything they say, Im sure they run some after market parts on their buggies and have an engine tuner and all the rest.


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 9:01 PM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		I've seen some of the prices on winning onroad motors, GBE and TS motors are cheep.... when they limit the rules on what can be done engine builder work harder at making the most out of what they can work with... time is not free

So maybe it would not be such a bad idea to allow billet case motors for offroad racing, just limit what can be done with them?


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 10:32 PM   
brice_arnold


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hathi

I've seen some of the prices on winning onroad motors, GBE and TS motors are cheep.... when they limit the rules on what can be done engine builder work harder at making the most out of what they can work with... time is not free

So maybe it would not be such a bad idea to allow billet case motors for offroad racing, just limit what can be done with them?

I would rather see a stock class with similar regulations as the road cars and a mod class where anything goes

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 10:37 PM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		simple? 1000 dollar simple 23cc engine?

I was lucky enough this year to attend the onroad national, I have some understanding of the rules they run.

A mod class would be fun, I'd run a GBE engine with a rev limiter on it... lmao


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/29/2007 11:46 PM   
K-Spindle



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Status: offline 		Hati most I have ever spent on a 23cc mod motor is $250.00 above the base motor cost.

Stock class is a good thing keeps cost down and power that most can handle.
Open class let them rip.

But one thing is for sure racing pushes companies to make better parts for racers and bashers.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 12:02 AM   
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Status: offline 		I cannot wait too see this engine come out....Already putting $$$$ aside

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 12:08 AM   
hathi


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hndaman1

I cannot wait too see this engine come out....Already putting $$$$ aside


Yeah me too, but times 3! Yes I want the whole line up of motors!


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 6:40 PM   
fourwheeler



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Status: offline 		A stock class would rock!! It would even the playing field so the driver makes the difference...not his wallet. Not everyone has money to burn on these things and the last thing you want to do is limit new people just getting into the hobby.

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 7:22 PM   
cenracer1


 

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Status: offline 		I wish I lived in a place where there could be a 1/5th scale stock class or any class.. the tracks around here are four 1/10 and 1/8th at best.. I have tried to run the baja at some of these tracks, but too tight to turn and they just complain that I am tearing up the jumps... They all like the baja, just not tearing up the track...

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 8:03 PM   
K-Spindle



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Status: offline 		Thats been a big problem. There are a few tracks out here and in Az who will be racing large scale. However, the tracks used for large scale off road racing are not the same as used for BIG air 1:8 tracks. So if you want BIG air 1:8 buggy action in large scale format just ask yourself would you want to turn marshal that?

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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 11:14 PM   
hathi


 

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Status: offline 		I love tearing up our local track with the baja.... everyone else keeps adding dumb jumps, so I just go out and tear it all up...

But hey when I make up almost 25% of the club, I should have my say!


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 11:18 PM   
hathi


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: K-Spindle

Hati most I have ever spent on a 23cc mod motor is $250.00 above the base motor cost.

Stock class is a good thing keeps cost down and power that most can handle.
Open class let them rip.

But one thing is for sure racing pushes companies to make better parts for racers and bashers.


I may have to talk to you about hooking me up, the guys at the nationals said you can get $500 dollar motors but you have to talk to them.... and when I talked they said a grand... and would not even give me a free hat!


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RE: New Gabe Brown Engineering motors - 11/30/2007 11:37 PM   
cenracer1


 

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Status: offline 		I never thought about turn marshaling for a 1/5 scale race... I guess full body armor and a football helmet would be required... Most 1/5 tracks don't have the jumps like the smaller tracks.. at least thats what I've been seeing...

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