RE: Membership Directory?  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       


Miniature Aircraft USA Ion-X - RTF
Seller:  1surfer
Details:   $5,000.00   |  10/5/2008   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Membership Directory?
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Membership Directory? - 1/4/2008 3:50:42 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Al Lewis

Do you realize this is a world wide web site and a world wide organization???? AMA = Academy of Model Aeronautics NOT American!!


From their web site


What is the AMA?
AMA is the Academy of Model Aeronautics.
AMA is the world's largest sport aviation organization, representing a membership of more than 170,000 from every walk of life, income level and age group.
AMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity.
AMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation.
AMA is the official national body for model aviation in the United States. AMA sanctions more than a thousand model competitions throughout the country each year, and certifies official model flying records on a national and international level.
AMA is the organizer of the annual National Aeromodeling Championships, the world's largest model airplane competition.
AMA is the chartering organization for more than 2,500 model airplane clubs across the country. AMA offers its chartered clubs official contest sanction, insurance, and assistance in getting and keeping flying sites.
AMA is the voice of its membership, providing liaison with the Federal Aviation Administration, the Federal Communications Commission, and other government agencies through our national headquarters in Muncie, Indiana. AMA also works with local governments, zoning boards, and parks departments to promote the interests of local chartered clubs.
AMA is an associate member of the National Aeronautic Association. Through NAA, AMA is recognized by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), the world governing body of all aviation activity, as the only organization which may direct U.S. participation in international aeromodeling activities.


Fair enough, the AMA could be held liable under Autralian law??? I guess you could argue that. I didn't think you may have made a mistake, so I'll just take your word for it.

However the AMA is a not profit corporation, so they could never be liable for the Act under the Australian law. Nobody nor the AMA as a whole profits from anything under American not for profit corporation laws. The money the AMA brings in is revenue, which much be utilized for it's mission, not for it's personal piggy bank.

OK, now this is getting silly, any way you can find some American privacy laws out there in cyberspace? You should know by now America is the loosey goosey country when it comes to privacy laws. Much less then the world average.

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to Al Lewis)
       Post #: 76

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/4/2008 4:59:14 PM   
littlecrankshaf



Posts: 2134
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: STLPilot


The money the AMA brings in is revenue, which much be utilized for it's mission, not for it's personal piggy bank.




Although there will always be those that defend otherwise…regardless of the laws here or there or anywhere, AMA could have taken the high road and simply advertised their intent to produce a member’s directory themselves via their captive audience…Remember MA???… They could of included other information such as advertiser/source info as well…Purely asinine as it was delivered…no doubt about it!

AMA could have spared a lot of grief and stood to profit substantially if handled correctly. They chose delusion of grandeur as some sort of big business deal instead.

MA could be used to advertise all of their outlandish/worthwhile promotions a lot more cost effectively without getting our hackles up. This particular episode reminds me of a Lucy plan to sell groceries.

Argue that Lucy



_____________________________

Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 77

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/4/2008 7:14:17 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9784
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online
As always the topic boils down to what is fair, just and morally correct VS what is "legally OK" and what is "business as usual".

I am glad to see the showing of those who think this is a wormy deal.



_____________________________

Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to littlecrankshaf)
       Post #: 78

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/4/2008 10:28:11 PM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2313
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

As always the topic boils down to what is fair, just and morally correct VS what is "legally OK" and what is "business as usual".

I am glad to see the showing of those who think this is a wormy deal.




CP-

I share your feelings about that showing. Actually, I think the EC got the message in the feedback regarding the unsolicited DVD's, and rue making that deal. Then a new ED was hired and it has been reported that he had a major hand in this one.......maybe the message just needed to repeated.
I hope AMA will get out of the so-called 'affinity program' business altogether. They are all, by the most basic defining feature, a scam to begin with. Somebody with something to peddle but no market because he has no name makes a deal with an organization to use its good name and pretend to be that org. The likely outcome of letting some shyster buy rights to use your good name seems obvious folly enough, but apparently enough $$$$ waved around blurs recognition of that likelihood.

Abel

(in reply to combatpigg)
       Post #: 79

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/4/2008 10:33:25 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9784
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: online
Abel you summed it up very well.

_____________________________

Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to abel_pranger)
       Post #: 80

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 12:18:12 AM   
Gizmo-RCU


 

Posts: 976
Joined: 9/17/2002
From: Athol, ID, USA
Status: offline
After three post cards and now an email today, I am waiting for a phone calll. HOPE THEY DO AS I AM ON THE NATIONAL "NO-CALL" LIST AND WILL MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF IT. Talk about pushy people, there must be enough profit to warrant all of this activity?

_____________________________

Gizmo

(in reply to Al Lewis)
       Post #: 81

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 12:24:21 AM   
The Toolman


 

Posts: 807
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline
You know what guys, it has been said that everybody has your info anyway. Well, maybe they aren't doing anything illegal, but it just isn't right for the ama to start trying to make $$ off of its members without first asking in a newsletter/MA/bulletin or something to see if there is even any interest in it.

For all we know they could have gave harris the whole membership list an told them to just publish the ones that wanted their name in it. Harris might still have all of the other names that they might use or sell later. Without being a board member or higher up, the members have no idea who else might have accquired that list also, an what they might/could do with it later on.

This kinda stuff goes on everyday in big biz, but it just shouldn't happen in an org like ours without at least getting a feel for it from the people who pay the dues to keep the org up an running every year.

All of these schemes that are going on now (video/directory) sounds like an attempt to shore up screw ups somewhere else.

I would rather see the dues raised a little as to have half a dozen other little things going on.

Remember, once the freqs are all 2.4 in a few years, the only thing the ama will be is mainly an insurance company.


Ronnie

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to combatpigg)
       Post #: 82

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 12:43:55 AM   
Al Lewis


 

Posts: 1791
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: Port Orchard WA, USA
Status: offline
Well said Toolman but I really don't consider them as much more then a insurance broker now. Bottom line, they work for us, the membership! It is not their job, or in their charter to mislead or otherwise deceive the membership that supports them and pays their salaries. Kinda reminding you of the US Congress are they??? Well maybe they've got the same idea that they are somehow royalty or above the law. Maybe we need a full investigation into their activities to clean house and bring the organization back into the mainstream way of thinking that their MEMBERSHIP has. Let's do a concensus, who wants to see these guys jerked back into reality and reminded that they are servants of the membership???

< Message edited by Al Lewis -- 1/5/2008 12:45:07 AM >


_____________________________

Take Offs are Optional, Landings are Really Nerve Racking!! Al Lewis AMA #821623

(in reply to The Toolman)
       Post #: 83

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 1:24:05 AM   
The Toolman


 

Posts: 807
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Warsaw, MO, USA
Status: offline
Lets try it this way...

Who actually thinks they are gonna let anybody see what really goes on...



Ron

_____________________________

Ron B.
AMA-862729 PB-2718

(in reply to Al Lewis)
       Post #: 84

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 2:23:04 AM   
804


 

Posts: 221
Joined: 9/17/2005
From: sheridan, IN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger


quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

As always the topic boils down to what is fair, just and morally correct VS what is "legally OK" and what is "business as usual".

I am glad to see the showing of those who think this is a wormy deal.




CP-

I share your feelings about that showing. Actually, I think the EC got the message in the feedback regarding the unsolicited DVD's, and rue making that deal. Then a new ED was hired and it has been reported that he had a major hand in this one.......maybe the message just needed to repeated.
I hope AMA will get out of the so-called 'affinity program' business altogether. They are all, by the most basic defining feature, a scam to begin with. Somebody with something to peddle but no market because he has no name makes a deal with an organization to use its good name and pretend to be that org. The likely outcome of letting some shyster buy rights to use your good name seems obvious folly enough, but apparently enough $$$$ waved around blurs recognition of that likelihood.

Abel

If the AMA can raise a few $$$ with these deals, fine by me. No scams here. A scam is taking advantage of people who don't know any better. If you are saying the average member can't recognize a scam,well, can't agree. Nobody has to participate, my arm hasn't been twisted. I haven't received any phone calls or mailings about the directory. After not paying for, nor returning the first video, I received exactly one notice from AMA. I ignored it, now they ignore me! Seems pretty simple.
Bill

(in reply to abel_pranger)
       Post #: 85

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 2:39:39 AM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Bottom line, they work for us, the membership!
93% of the AMA population had the chance to make their voices heard, they chose not too. The AMA does work for "us" but one thing I've learned from this forum, "us" does not live here, they are enjoying the fruits and labor of the AMA, as well as the manufacturers. Some argue that since 93% of the membership chose not to vote, doesn't make a difference, but unfortunately that is a bunk argument, after the final count was tallied those who did vote for the EC and the President gave them the power to make the best decisions for "us". If you think you have what it takes or think you can do it better, by all means give it a shot

_____________________________

Here At The Wall

(in reply to Al Lewis)
       Post #: 86

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 2:57:13 AM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2313
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

If the AMA can raise a few $$$ with these deals, fine by me. No scams here. A scam is taking advantage of people who don't know any better. If you are saying the average member can't recognize a scam,well, can't agree. Nobody has to participate, my arm hasn't been twisted. I haven't received any phone calls or mailings about the directory. After not paying for, nor returning the first video, I received exactly one notice from AMA. I ignored it, now they ignore me! Seems pretty simple.
Bill


Bill-

Obviously we don't agree on this issue, but I both respect your right to your own opinion, and appreciate somebody willing to speak out that doesn't agree with mine. To me, it's boring when I get nothing but agreement - nothing to be learned in that scenario, and it pretty much defeats the purpose of having a discussion.
I agree with the motive you infer of AMA leadership seeking out ways to generate non-dues revenue. I don't agree with compromising basic principles to further that end. The basis of the 'affinity program' deals may seem acceptable as just little white lies that will result in furthering a noble end. I just don't buy that. I'll illustrate with the punch line of a racy story most everybody here has probably heard: "We have established what you are, and now we're just dickering over the price."
And btw, I am not saying the average member cannot recognize a scam, but rather applaud them because they are clearly demonstrating that they can.

Abel

edit to fix spelling goof

< Message edited by abel_pranger -- 1/5/2008 3:35:30 AM >

(in reply to 804)
       Post #: 87

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 4:42:49 AM   
804


 

Posts: 221
Joined: 9/17/2005
From: sheridan, IN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abel_pranger

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

If the AMA can raise a few $$$ with these deals, fine by me. No scams here. A scam is taking advantage of people who don't know any better. If you are saying the average member can't recognize a scam,well, can't agree. Nobody has to participate, my arm hasn't been twisted. I haven't received any phone calls or mailings about the directory. After not paying for, nor returning the first video, I received exactly one notice from AMA. I ignored it, now they ignore me! Seems pretty simple.
Bill


Bill-

Obviously we don't agree on this issue, but I both respect your right to your own opinion, and appreciate somebody willing to speak out that doesn't agree with mine. To me, it's boring when I get nothing but agreement - nothing to be learned in that scenario, and it pretty much defeats the purpose of having a discussion.
I agree with the motive you infer of AMA leadership seeking out ways to generate non-dues revenue. I don't agree with compromising basic principles to further that end. The basis of the 'affinity program' deals may seem acceptable as just little white lies that will result in furthering a noble end. I just don't buy that. I'll illustrate with the punch line of a racy story most everybody here has probably heard: "We have established what you are, and now we're just dickering over the price."
And btw, I am not saying the average member cannot recognize a scam, but rather applaud them because they are clearly demonstrating that they can.

Abel

edit to fix spelling goof

Abel,
I appreciate your respectful reply. As trite as it sounds, we should all agree to disagree.
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, only trying to point out that AMA members will either buy this stuff or not. Maybe they're not buying, I don't know. The only complaining I've seen is here, not at the field or hobby shops.
If AMA needs to raise more cash, they either have to try programs like these, or maybe raise dues. Although it would not bother me to raise dues a small amount, it seems that $58.00 is already too much for a lot of members.
I guess in the end, I just don't see the "comprimising of basic principles" that you and some others see. I certainly don't feel like I've been "pimped" by the AMA.
My question to you and others is, what type of fund-raising programs would you feel comfortable with?


Bill

(in reply to abel_pranger)
       Post #: 88

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 4:59:34 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3384
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online
I'm still waiting to be first to buy some cans of AMA Chili,
a product we can raise cash from OUTSIDE the membership,
or get decent freight prices for getting a pallet of spicy goodness from Muncie to the local clubs for distribution.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to 804)
       Post #: 89

RE: Membership Directory? - 1/5/2008 5:52:55 AM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2313
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804

My question to you and others is, what type of fund-raising programs would you feel comfortable with?




Bill-

I really don't know, but it appears that I'm in good company in that regard. Fund-raising programs are only one way of dealing with the issue of sustaining an organization. Cutting expenses needs to be considered too. I hear it said that AMA needs to either raise more money or cut programs. We see the efforts to raise more revenue, but little about trimming programs of marginal value. I think there probably are some that could go and not be missed by most members. Not long ago a poll was started in this forum to discuss what products/programs offered by AMA are considered essential, and what are 'nice to have.' Essentials didn't get past one item: liability insurance for sites owners, as that is needed to secure flying sites.
It's not just AMA that faces this issue, and some insight might be gained from what an affiliated organization is doing, apparently in response to a revenue flow situation more dire than AMA currently faces. From the minutes of the AMA EC meeting of October 27, 2007:

"6. NAA Report

NAA President J. Gaffney made a presentation (approved by the NAA BOD) on how NAA plans to move toward solvency in the future. Immediate steps that will be taken include freezing the number of staff; reducing the leasing costs and temporarily halting the magazine. To create a financially stable organization, a solid line must be drawn between the work NAA does and those who benefit from that work. Future initiatives include replacing the magazine, working on staffing, and working on relationships with the air sport organizations. NAA will hold a conference with the air sport organizations in the coming year.

Ways AMA benefits from NAA membership include the NAA being the liaison for international competition; for as much as AMA is willing to participate, NAA will incorporate AMA into the aviation community at large (other air sport organizations); and NAA can provide Washington DC representatives and help with FAA issues, licensing, etc.


Abel

(in reply to 804)
       Post #: 90