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Substitute nitromethane - 11/14/2007 1:49:24 PM   
HARC_PT


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/9/2005
From: vnf, PORTUGAL
Status: offline 		Hi!

I'm thinking to make my own fuel for my old TRX2.5R... say something like 20% nitro and 12-16% oil... I was looking where to buy the ingredients but i can't find the nitromethane... There's another substitute to the nitromethane? What should be the right amounts for doing something equivalent to fuel with 20% nitro and 12-16% oil?

Till now this are the ingredients that i am thinking and that i can find:

Methanol
Ethanol
Benzene
Acetone
Ricin(o) Oil
Synthetic oil (for 2-stroke engines)

_ it lacks an additive to me to substitute the nitromethane...

What should i use? Which is the best mixture?

Thanks for all help!!!


< Message edited by HARC_PT -- 11/16/2007 3:14:33 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/15/2007 10:25:34 AM   
HARC_PT


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/9/2005
From: vnf, PORTUGAL
Status: offline 		Any Suggestion?

(in reply to HARC_PT)
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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/15/2007 10:38:28 AM   
wolfiberkleid


 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: la paz, BOLIVIA
Status: offline 		SIR

KLOTS, THE SAME THAT MAKES THE OIL FOR OUR FUELS HAS NITROMETHANE FOR SALE, WHY DONT YOU CHECK ITS WEBSITE

GOOD LUCK

(in reply to HARC_PT)
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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/16/2007 1:01:29 PM   
balsaeater


 

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: p, ANDORRA
Status: offline 		I saw some threads on this subject and there did exist replacements for nitromethane
they were of the nitro fasmily something like nitro ethelelene or something alonmg those names

They did a similar job but had other issues possibly more or less flamable and dont supply as much oxegen as nitromethane but were often cheaper

Realy most motors can funcion well on no nitro and if the compression is increased will give the same performance as nitro fuel

The issue is zero nitro and high compression motors are not for the novice
reducing compression and using nitro give you the esier starting from low compression and nitro gives back the power lost from low compression


Nitro methane is a brain dead way to get more power and bigger motor with tuned pie on no nitro is probably better solution and can clean you out of money real fast on a 50% nitro combo for a 90 sized 3d heli as fuel consumpion increases four fold at 50% nitro

as nitiro isnt realy a fuel but more like liquid oxegen so 30% nito will realy mean your 5 litres is more like 4 litres fuel and one litre liguid oxegen and the air is full of free oxegen

Balsaeater

(in reply to wolfiberkleid)
       Post #: 4

RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/22/2007 7:00:33 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7253
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Nitro is a fuel. They run race cars with 100% nitro.

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/23/2007 1:28:08 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3012
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: balsaeater
The issue is zero nitro and high compression motors are not for the novice

It's not quite as bad as you might think. I've never used nitro in any engine because I've got no use for it but I've modded engines to raise the compression considerably to get the benefit of zero nitro. Starting was just as easy (one flick), idling was considerably improved (much lower and smoother) and power increased quite a lot. My son and I did the same thing to his car engine and with our normal 80/20 plane fuel he has the same performance as identical car/engines using 25% nitro.

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/23/2007 1:44:30 PM   
HARC_PT


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/9/2005
From: vnf, PORTUGAL
Status: offline 		So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?

Methanol or Ethanol?
Benzene or Acetone?

Give me your blends formula! Pay attention that i dont want to explode my engine/car... and also i dont want to diminish the time of life of my engine...

And what should i do to raise the compression of my TRX2.5R?



< Message edited by HARC_PT -- 11/23/2007 1:57:58 PM >

(in reply to downunder)
       Post #: 7

RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/24/2007 1:37:46 PM   
liquid_TR


 

Posts: 389
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: ISTANBUL, TURKEY
Status: offline 		Its MUCH more easier & just as cheap to go and buy a ready mix morgan,byron, or any other brand fuel of 5% nitro with 16%oil. It WILL be more reliable.

That small engine already has high compression. Its not as easy to "make" a fuel and modify the compression ratio for that blend as you think..

_____________________________

LiQuid TR

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/24/2007 2:37:31 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7253
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Mixing fuel is pretty d#m# easy. If you are not using nitro mixing fuel is usually a lot cheaper. Even with nitro it can be cheaper, if you find a good reasonable source of nitro. Changing the compression is also easy, at least with two strokes and if you have the equipment.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 11/24/2007 2:39:49 PM >

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/24/2007 3:58:47 PM   
blw



Posts: 4324
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		In some ways, it is easier to buy fuel instead of making your own. I would like to make my own too, but the fact is that we just don't have some of the additives that make manufactured fuel as good as it is. From what I've read here, those who are brewing their own fuels are doing a good job with what they have available.

Either way, using nitro or not using it, is fine. I disagree about using nitro as being 'brain dead'. Nitro has its place. So does fuel without it. Please keep the comments friendly and non judgemental. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion forum and I don't want to start editing posts to keep it that way, but I will if warranted.

_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/25/2007 3:35:30 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3012
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HARC_PT
So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?

The best and simplest mixture is 80% methanol and 20% castor. Adding about 3% acetone is supposed to be similar to having around 5% nitro as far as starting and idling go but it's not necessary. Your standard car engine will run quite well on this simple mixture. Seeing you're in Portugal you should be able to get Castrol M castor, it's absolutely the best you can buy. Here's a start.

Name: Castrol Portuguesa
Address: Lagoa's Park - Edificio 3 2740-244 Porto Salvo Oeiras, Portugal
Phone: 00 351( 21) 389 1000
Fax: 00 351( 21) 389 1600

Raising the compression enough to get the most out of straight methanol isn't all that simple though because it requires some machining of the cylinder head and accurate measuring equipment. Most engines (including cars) are around 9.5:1 and you need to get it up to about 13:1 for best performance with zero nitro.

(in reply to HARC_PT)
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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/25/2007 11:05:56 AM   
Luna_Rendezvous



Posts: 134
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

quote:

ORIGINAL: HARC_PT
So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?
you should be able to get Castrol M castor, it's absolutely the best you can buy.


How can you get away with telling such lies...?

There are many superior alternatives, such as klotz benol, bakers AA, and even BP first press castor, these are true first pressing castor oils, and as such are of the highest quality. I still have 1/2 tin castrol m in my shed that I will not touch, it definitely is not first press, and it leaves blackish brown deposits in every motor I’ve run it in, for it's price it's a rip-off!


(in reply to downunder)
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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/25/2007 4:04:05 PM   
downunder



Posts: 3012
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous
How can you get away with telling such lies...?

I'll leave it up to the mods as to what they want to do with that statement.

Everyone has an opinion, some get it from hands on experience and others from reading magazine ads.

Castrol M is also first pressing and doesn't have any of the chemically extracted castor that some other brands have. It's the only brand of castor I know of that's automatically accepted as suitable for FAI fuel in competitions. Admittedly I'm new at this but it's served me extremely well for the last 50 years and uncounted engines. And at $8 a litre it's hardly a rip-off.

(in reply to Luna_Rendezvous)
       Post #: 13

RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/25/2007 5:07:25 PM   
Jezmo



Posts: 652
Joined: 6/26/2006
From: Spring, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous
How can you get away with telling such lies...?

I'll leave it up to the mods as to what they want to do with that statement.

Everyone has an opinion, some get it from hands on experience and others from reading magazine ads.

Castrol M is also first pressing and doesn't have any of the chemically extracted castor that some other brands have. It's the only brand of castor I know of that's automatically accepted as suitable for FAI fuel in competitions. Admittedly I'm new at this but it's served me extremely well for the last 50 years and uncounted engines. And at $8 a litre it's hardly a rip-off.


I agree that was pretty inflammatory.

On the issue of Castrol M I've never had problems either. It has always worked great and while I run my oil blended these days it wasn't always that way. I used to run straight castor long ago and resisted the synth as long as I could. It does have it's good points though especially if you use the good stuff like Coopers has. As far as castor stains on my engine I just drop it in my trusty old crock pot with antifreeze set it on low heat come back 8 or 10 hrs later rinse and viola clean as brand new. No work at all. Maybe the other fella had a bad can of Castrol M.

Have a wonderful day and happy flying in the land downunder.

_____________________________

Raptor 50 V2 OS 50 Hyper, T-Rex 450XL CDE, Spektrum DX7, SuperTigre OS FOX Saito Enya Jett TT

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/25/2007 9:23:58 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7253
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

In some ways, it is easier to buy fuel instead of making your own.


Unless the fuel is 0% nitro, or 100% castor, then its easier to mix it than to find a place that will sell it or pay more for EPA fees to ship it. All you need is methanol, oil, and sometimes nitro. Other additives are not required. When I mix it I at least know it has a good oil of the proper amount.

quote:

Please keep the comments friendly and non judgemental.


When was saying it was D%m% easy unfriendly? OK its darn easy, but I don't know why the latter is friendlier or more non judgemental.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 11/25/2007 9:26:43 PM >

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RE: Substitute nitromethane - 11/25/2007 11:54:47 PM   
Luna_Rendezvous