Top Flite Cessna 310
- ARF
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| 6/25/2008
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Posts: 785
Joined: 9/26/2004 From: San Diego,
CA, USA Status: online
After lurking around for months watching related threads, I finally ordered a Pup kit from CD Scaledesigns. It will take a while for the kit to arrive but I have been collecting data for several years on this plane. I have the Windsock Datafile already and lots and lots of internet pix. I will probably build the RAAF replica version because I love the look of it. On the other hand, I have had some radio issues with my metal clad VK Camel and, until I sort those out, will also consider other schemes (some of which might also have the metal issues). I am very interested in Pup B202 of which I have some pix of a scale model, but nothing on the real plane. Anybody know anything about this plane, particularly about documentation? Other possibilities are N5192 and N6452 which I love but am worried about doing that engine turning properly. My goal is to do a relatively fast build, not getting into total detail like I did on the Camel, or like Abu's incredible Snipe. I would hope to complete the build by May or June, using a Saito 65 or 72 with Spektrum radio. This is one reason the RAAF plane is appealing, it has a simpler covering without all the stitching, etc. (could even be done in iron-on film but I probably wouldn't). Comments, info and advice are welcome, please.
I have a feeling that the 72 would be "too much engine" for such a light model as the Pup. I felt it was right for the heavier (and larger) Snipe (plus I can use the weight up front) but I'd go with either the Saito 65 or even just 58 on the Pup. Or are you doing the 1/5 scale version? Sure wish I could use a Spektrum radio here in Japan.
< Message edited by abufletcher -- 11/16/2007 2:38:42 AM >
Don't they have a Pup in the San Diego air and Space Museum?? Talk about having all the docs you need in your own back yard......But then there is a DR-1 reproduction here....painted blue....not a pretty airplane!!
If the weather is good coming Sunday (temp 41 deg.F we're only looking at the wind here....) we can tell you how the protoype will fly with a Magnum FS 52 FSR. Balanced and ready for flight she weighs in at 6.8 Lbs
Here she is tied down at a Fly inn 'cause there was a 27 knots of wind blowing.;
Wish us luck,
Frank (and Chris!)
< Message edited by Frank Sopwith -- 11/16/2007 7:27:08 AM >
Posts: 785
Joined: 9/26/2004 From: San Diego,
CA, USA Status: online
Hey Frank, best of luck with the maiden flights. I have been watching the other thread and will continue to do so. I am particularly interested in any mods you might suggest, based on your flights (things like adding down or right thrust, exact CG location, etc.). Abu, my engine choice will be influenced by Frank's flights with that 52, although I like to stay with Saito. The .72 is actually smaller than the 65 in several important dimensions although the CD Scaledesigns layout may negate the advantages of that. On the VK Camel, I had to recess the firewall for the four stoke engine and the 72 worked out better than the longer 65. Still... Randy, I am a member of the San Diego museum for just that reason and spend lots of time there, particularly hanging around that Pup. I also refer to the Shuttlesworth site, Don Coe's Pup build thread on RCSCALEBUILDER and Don's Snipe build for Sopwith detail discussions and ideas (also your great Hanriot thread).
I went there many years ago, they had a Convair Sea Dart displayed out front.....I remember the great WWI exhibits and the dioramas. Thought they had a Pup....beautiful display, not one you'd want to copy as a flying model though...
Posts: 4874
Joined: 2/13/2004 From: Zentsuji, JAPAN Status: offline
I've taken about a thousand photos of that bare-bones Pup replica at the San Diego Aerospace Museum and have used them throughout my Snipe build to guide my thinking about Sopwith manufacturing techniques. I usualy get down (from Orange) for a visit each time I'm in the US. Hey, maybe we can even meet up there during my trip at Xmas time!
< Message edited by abufletcher -- 11/17/2007 2:31:28 AM >
Hi Allen, welcome to the wonderful world of CD-Scaledesigns! I was really chuffed when your order came in as I have been a great admirer of your VK Camel in US Navy markings. Back in the early 90ies I saw a Camel in the Pensacola Museum with similar (or the same?) markings and I was really impressed. That is a cool looking camel! You will be interested to know that our Pup kit now includes lots of hard to make hardwood items and sticks as lots of people have been asking for them. I have uploaded the new manual to my website, but you can also see it here CD-Scaledesigns Pup Parts Manual I'll get your order out as soon as possible. CT
< Message edited by CTDavies -- 11/17/2007 9:18:58 PM >
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Posts: 67
Joined: 2/4/2007 From: Gainesville, VA, USA Status: offline
Here are some original Pup pics from 1917 that I got for my documentation for the 1985 Nats and the 1986 Masters. I sent to the Imperial War Museum in England for them. Black and white for sure, so color selection is the same guess for everyone . And these pics are clearer than they appear on line. This planes' combat days were over when pics were taken, but she survived for training purposes. The machine gun is gone but the lines and chutes are still there and a curved windscreen has been added. There is no center section cut-out and the cowl has a very interesting front. I can't tell you how many Pups I've built with this scheme and number but I always liked the "kinda used look". This looks like a fantastic kit you are attempting.Wish I had one in 1985, I had to draw my own plans and build from scratch. Was it worth it??.................Regards Jack
< Message edited by puplover -- 11/17/2007 5:09:00 PM >
Posts: 785
Joined: 9/26/2004 From: San Diego,
CA, USA Status: online
Those are great old photos of that Pup and, yes, scratch building is worth it. CT, I have some pix of a VK Camel that I think you built (below), which became part of my resource file on my Camel build. The Pensacola Pup was the subject I finally settled on for that project. I liked the VK kit but this Pup kit looks like it will be even better.
Allan, see the post of Chris on the other thread of the succesfull first flight of the Pup! For you I got some (first hand) data:
After take off only a bit off down trim was needed which means the CoG is on 95 to 100 mm from the top wing LE Aileron throw is 1/2" up, definetely use Aileron differential (50%!!!) Could mix rudder with aileron with a switch, tried both and as expected the turn is smoother with rudder mixed to it. Throw of the Rudder just max what you can get, tried some stall turns: perfect! Elevator throw 1/2" up an down is more then enough. And then the engine power, we definitely had more then enough power with the 52 Magnum fourstroke, take off at 1/2 throttle (from grass!!!) Flying around all the time (23 minutes in the freezing cold, we must be mad ) with little above idle, used (short) full throttle to perform a nice loop so I hope you can use these experiences to make your choice....
In general she's an intermediate flyer level plane, stable and no surprises! Good luck with building this beauty, and if you have any other questions: just ask!
Posts: 785
Joined: 9/26/2004 From: San Diego,
CA, USA Status: online
Congratulations and thanks for the information. I will definitely drop the idea of a Saito 72 as just being too much engine. Seems I remember reading an account by Chris about his old VK Camel as having too much engine and hard to get to land also. I read on the other thread about your aileron setup and plan to try it that way too. How much lead ballast did you end up with to balance the thing out? Also, how big a fuel tank does it have? Did it show any signs of getting tail heavy as the fuel was finally used up? Again, a great day for you, Chris and the company. Hope there are tons of orders for this cool model (just tell Chris to get my shipped out first though...).
Posts: 785
Joined: 9/26/2004 From: San Diego,
CA, USA Status: online
My order went in today for a Saito 62a (same block as the 50) and the flexible pipe muffler/90degree adaptor. I see where Paypal cleared my payment to Chris so hopefully I will have something to do, and report on soon.
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CD Scaledesigns Pup build - 
I think you'll love it! 
we're only looking at the wind here....) 
) with little above idle, used (short) full throttle to perform a nice loop