Saito 180 flaming out

Saito 180 flaming out
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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 12:15:40 PM

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
Status: offline

I am glad to hear you believe the offset weight is correct.

I will insert check valves as step 9 and move the others down.

Thanks all for hanging in there with me.

_____________________________

-RCA

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 2:12:44 PM

Pepe J

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Canada, BC, CANADA
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Ditto on the "Fat" idle ilike, thats the way to have 'em running! Who needs a tach. when ya can count the tips going by.
I see the new Hangar 9 Micro Digital tach. was given a thumbs up by Mr. C. Lee. On par with a TNC at $28 ? (May 03 RCM).

I think when the time comes to assemble my Ultimate I will check the lateral balance before I mount the engine and possible mount it inverted?

RCA, Step # 7 may lead to more problems then it will solve as far as an oscillating pump goes? I used one once a little while back for the first time and didn't have much luck with it? I should post a thread to see what the Guru's have to say?

Happy Fly'n.....

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"The Lord Listens, but Money Talks."

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 4:04:00 PM

bobi

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: bangkok, THAILAND
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you should try a bigger prop ...... say an 17*8, 18*6 it should bring the topend rpm lower (~9000) and also lower the idle rpms.

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 4:55:43 PM

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Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Loxley, AL, USA
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I have been following this thread lately and have a few suggestions. On your low end needle the ballpark setting for most Satios is flush with the end of the throttle arm. I think you should try this and run the top end alittle rich too. It takes satios a long time to break in so take it easy on the needles. You will notice when adjusting the high speed needle that you can richen the needle quite a bit and lose very little rpm. Kudos on the 30% Heli it makes satios run sweet and tends to broaden the needle settings of the engine. The nitro in the fuels raises the compression of the engine but the extra oil in the heli brand keeps the engine cool. Also in these manuevers you are performing the violent spins and stuff you have to add in a little throttle to keep the engine running or it will likely die. A pressure system would help with this. I do recommend the Cline over the Perry. Much easier to install in a fourstroke like the satio. Just use muffler pressure through a check valve. Or you could replace the Satio 180 with the new YS 140 Sport as a last resort.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 7:24:39 PM

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
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Two things:
1. personal preference 10 inch pitch makes for a fast plane....I like it!

Maybe I should find a 16x16!
2. Anything larger in diameter ups the thrust enough that it doesn't slow down enough to taxi well.

On point 2 if I can get it to idle slower this might be a moot point, however.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobi
you should try a bigger prop ...... say an 17*8, 18*6 it should bring the topend rpm lower (~9000) and also lower the idle rpms. [/QUOTE]

Thanks everybody for their help. At this point I will just have to get some good weather to test. I awoke to rain and a server crash so not sure on testing abilitly this weekend. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks again for everyones input.

_____________________________

-RCA

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 9:22:01 PM

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From: poway, CA,
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I've been following the thread and may be silly but I saw no mention of the size fuel line you are using. Please say you are using large diameter line!!!! I had a 180 in a H9 edge and it ran great for a Saito!(I'm a YS guy..) But it took forever to get a reliable idle. I think I burnt 1 1/2gal of 30% before i felt the engine was reliable enough to fly. And then you fly timid for another gallon or so to finish breakin. Also a larger diam, smaller pitch prop will aid you greatly in 3d.
By the way I just inherited another 180gk on a y/a sukhoi!!! Time to try again

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/4/2003 9:33:22 PM

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
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I am using medium line. All the fuel fittings are sized for this diameter line.

3D is no problem with the 16x10 prop.

I had an 18" and a 17" prop on it before and personally I like the way the 16x10 flies.

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-RCA

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/5/2003 4:49:54 AM

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From: poway, CA,
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I would go ahead and outfit with large fuel from the clunk to the carb. The pressure line does'nt matter.
I hear what you are saying about the props. I feel the same way as far as general flight characteristics. The higher pitch gives you better response. But the lower pitch will give you a much more stable hover and 3D(harriers...) hi pitch maneuvers. I'm running an 18x6 on a YS-120NC in a AKM 3D Freedom and the low speed maneuvers are awesome.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/5/2003 6:38:46 AM

Posts: 166
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From: Richardson, TX,
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At this point I will not change out the prop unless I am overspeeding the engine. I have enough to tinker with right now.

I will look into the other fuel line. Changing it out will be a bear, though.

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-RCA

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/5/2003 9:35:19 AM

Posts: 1295
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From: poway, CA,
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Good luck! It'll get figured out... hang in there

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/6/2003 6:50:32 AM

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
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OK. Here are the results of my test flying.

Without the cowl off it is getting hot to the touch with 5 full turns out on the main needle. That is max RPM backed off a 1/2 turn.

I set up idle up on the TX where in flight would be 3500 RPM.

I flew it 1/2 throttle to full throttle and it died on a full throttle verticle climb.

This is with a header tank sitting right next to the engine.

On this dead stick landing it broke off the header tank I had stuck onto the firewall.

This saves me from removing it since it did not help me anyway.

I am agreeing with whomever said it is an air leak. I am going to go through it and remove the dual tanks and put the single 16 oz tank on it. I am also going to move to large fuel line.

I will also mount the fuel pump on the engine but not hook it up.

Lastly, I am going to go throgh and look for air leaks while I have the engine out of the plane (I have to drill out the firewall for bigger fuel line).

All I have to say is man that was a long walk of shame going to get my plane at the field today. At least it was able to fly again without repairs needed.

These dead stick landings are ruining my reputation.

_____________________________

-RCA

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/6/2003 7:20:02 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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RCA:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RCAdd1ct
OK. Here are the results of my test flying.
Without the cowl off it is getting hot to the touch with 5 full turns out on the main needle. That is max RPM backed off a 1/2 turn.[/QUOTE]
Hot is OK, if too got to touch there's a cooling problem. But 5 turns seems a lot. Flow restriction?
[QUOTE]I set up idle up on the TX where in flight would be 3500 RPM. I flew it 1/2 throttle to full throttle and it died on a full throttle vertical climb. This is with a header tank sitting right next to the engine.[/QUOTE]
A header tank eliminates the once in a while air bubble, the engine still sees the total distance to the main tank as its fuel draw.
[QUOTE]On this dead stick landing it broke off the header tank I had stuck onto the firewall. This saves me from removing it since it did not help me anyway. I am agreeing with whomever said it is an air leak. I am going to go through it and remove the dual tanks and put the single 16 oz tank on it. I am also going to move to large fuel line. I will also mount the fuel pump on the engine but not hook it up.[/QUOTE]
Bad idea. The pump will be an additional restriction to the fuel draw. If you hang it, hook it up.
[QUOTE]Lastly, I am going to go through and look for air leaks while I have the engine out of the plane (I have to drill out the firewall for bigger fuel line).[/QUOTE]
Think the larger fuel line will do more good than anything else, except, perhaps, the pump.
[QUOTE]These dead stick landings are ruining my reputation. [/QUOTE]
You have a reputation? Haw.

Bill.

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/6/2003 9:26:51 AM

Pepe J

Posts: 511
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From: Canada, BC, CANADA
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Hey RCA,

Are the openings in the cowl large enough for air to pass to cool the engine adequately? Something to consider.

I guess so with the cowl removed.....DOOOOOH!

Happy Fly'n.....

< Message edited by Pepe J -- Apr 6 2003 8:29AM >

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/6/2003 8:24:41 PM

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
Status: offline

The pump is an oscillating model. I was going to mount it on the engine but not run any lines to it. This way i can check if the tank/lines helped. If they don't I have an option to hook it up at the field without much hassle. This will allow me to do back to back testing where the weather or whatever will not effect results.

Speaking of weather. Anyone want a slightly hail dented 2000 F-150 hood?

_____________________________

-RCA

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/6/2003 8:56:20 PM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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RCA:

RE: Pump:

quote:

...mount it on the engine but not run any lines to it...

Thought about that after I made the post. Go for it.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/6/2003 10:50:51 PM

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Joined: 1/18/2002
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if you are using a glass-filled engine mount (not aluminum) the perry oscillating pump will vibrate a lot and inconsistently during acceleration of the engine....this causes pressure changes to the carb ......I had problems keeping consistent rpm because of this !! my solution was to add a bypass line to reduce the pressure (with no by-pass my main needle was adjusted at 1 turn out) now it's at 3 1/4 out... with no pump about 5 turns out

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/7/2003 2:21:10 AM