Saito 180 flaming out  
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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/1/2003 10:28:15 PM   
RCAdd1ct


 

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
Status: offline 		I have a Saito 180 on an CG Ultimate.

Plane flies great. Excellent power, good tranistion and idle. My problem is that about 4-5 minutes into the flight the engine will die.

I am doing tailslides and spins.

It is not a consistent failure just every now and then. I have had 3 good landings and about 15 dead sticks. I am really getting frustrated on this one.

This is my first 4 stroke. I am using 30% powermaster heli for fuel, an OS "F" plug and a slimline Pitts muffler.

To date this is what I have tried.
1. Run 2 8 ounce tanks instead of a 20 oz big tank.
2. richened the main needle to get good smoke on full throttle while still spinning a 16x10 APC prop 9700 RPM.
3. added a header tank that's center line is even with the carb.
4. asking it nicely to stay running.

What do you engine guru's think?

Add an on board glow?
Add a pump? (can I add a pump to a saito?)
Go back to 2 strokes?


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-RCA
       Post #: 1

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/1/2003 11:34:15 PM   
outssider


 

Posts: 1098
Joined: 1/18/2002
Status: offline 		have you tried praying to the engine Gods...he..he.


unfortunately...when you start doing 3d type maneuvers....tossing the plane all over the skies and going from idle to full throttle...constantly back and forth...idle...full throttle ...this is when you are most likely to dead-stick.....I did it myself yesterday:p with a ys 120...fortunately for me this is a rare occurrence. this was only the second time in a year of flying that this engine died. I have a 180 saito that has never dead-sticked but it has not had the same level of abuse that the 120ys gets.

I use a perry oscillating pump for the 180 saito but am not happy with it ! I would use the cline regulating system if I ever buy a pumping system again.

assuming that you have both the high and low mixture adjusted properly and still have this problem .....I would use the cline system to correct your problem

forget about all that two-tank-header tank stuff...it is a waste of time !

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 2

os plugs - 4/1/2003 11:43:40 PM   
barto



Posts: 519
Joined: 11/2/2002
From: Belgium, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		ello,

its very well possible that this wont help you at all. I have a .40FX and it had a nr.8 glowplug. The glowplug died after a few flights, I tried replacing them but it didn't work at all. My instructor gave me an enya 3 and I am still using that one. I had it about six months ago. The enya's are twice as expensive as the os's but they are well worth the money. I am only in the bussines for about a year but for me the os plugs are worth sh*t. Mayby this won't help you at all but who knows.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 3

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/1/2003 11:59:42 PM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		RCAdd1ct:

I suspect, in all that violent flinging about, you just might be having the clunk get outside the fuel in the tank, drawing air instead of fuel. It can, and does happen.

If it ends to flame out more often later in the flight this would be an additional indication of this condition.

It will not happen in normal flight, nor in common maneuvers without rapid changes of "Relative gravity direction."

But it has an easy cure - a bladder tank.

This uses a flexible bag inside the rigid tank, fuel in the bag attached directly to the fuel feed pipe, (no clunk needed) and the pressure feed goes to the outside of the bag.

Works like a champ.

If you don't understand exactly what I mean, you can buy a Tetra bladder tank from Central Hobbies. Worth the money to cure your problem.

HTH.

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 4

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 12:12:24 AM   
Spaceman Spiff



Posts: 1652
Joined: 1/22/2003
From: Tucson, AZ,
Status: offline 		If it is air getting in the fuel delivery, the dubro filter clunk might also do the trick. It replaces the regular clunk.. the sintered broze filter draws fuel like a sponge but repels air.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 5

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 1:41:29 AM   
RCAdd1ct


 

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
Status: offline 		So we are thinking a pump should be my next try and not an on board glow?

Can I hook up a pump to the crankcase vent without damaging the engine?

Thanks All for the responces.


_____________________________

-RCA

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       Post #: 6

Dead 180 - 4/2/2003 3:30:50 AM   
GaryM


 

Posts: 134
Joined: 8/13/2002
From: Copeville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		One very simple thing you should first check. Look for an air leak in side the tank where the pick up tube just fits over the brass tubing. This would account for three to four minutes of flight time then when the fuel just gets down to the brass tube level you pick up air and loose the motor.

GaryM

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 7

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 3:42:49 AM   
RCAdd1ct


 

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/27/2002
From: Richardson, TX,
Status: offline 		I checked all of that stuff pretty good.

I can fill and drain the tank without issues. it will pull almost the last drop of fuel.

On the ground I can run out the tank without isssues. On the ground the header tank does not foam or have bubbles in it.


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-RCA

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       Post #: 8

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 6:59:40 AM   
nyrcpilot



Posts: 274
Joined: 9/11/2002
From: Constantia , NY, USA
Status: offline 		do you have a computer radio with the ability to mix throttle up?


I run throttle up on all my planes, then when go to land I hit the mix to throttle back down. Try this first, then try the hard stuff as above.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 9

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 7:18:31 AM   
PigMan Buggerus



Posts: 827
Joined: 11/26/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I had same problem with my Saito 100, mixed in throttle up and it took care of it. If you don't have a computer radio, you could manually give yourself a few clicks of throttle, this seemed to help me, but I wasn't flying nearly as crazy as what you are flying. So yours very well could be a fuel pickup problem. This is a very cheap solution to try though, so it might be worth a shot before you go and buy an expensive regulator or pump!

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Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 7:24:31 AM   
slammin_sam



Posts: 202
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Uniontown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I had a similar problem a few weeks ago. After replacing everything including the motor I discovered that there was a small hole in the fule line inside the tank. As long as the fuel level was above the hole everything was fine. Once the fuel got a little low or I kept the plane heading up for more than a few seconds, it started sucking air. Worth a try.


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Sam

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       Post #: 11

Welcome to - 4/2/2003 7:50:27 AM   
TheEdge



Posts: 483
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Chula Vista, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The Saito dead stick zone. I have had just about every Saito there is and I have had the same phenomenon with all of them. Fantastic performance and reliability and the just when you least expect it, out in the middle of a flat spin, a DEAD STICK..

I have given up on all of my Saito's except the 100 which I deal with in my UCD3D.

That plane glides back in from anywhere.

I have asked the same questions and had nothing less than replies that make me feel an incompitent engine tuner. However, people at the field use me as the ear to tune their engines for the greatest performance and reliability.

I wish I knew how the Saito lovers do it..
They say thes engines are the simplest and most reliable. I wonder what they are comparing them to !!

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 12

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 7:51:59 AM   
nyrcpilot



Posts: 274
Joined: 9/11/2002
From: Constantia , NY, USA
Status: offline 		Good call Slam Sam!

I would hope at this point he has replaced all his fuel lines.....but most forget of the tank line.


I personally think he has solved the problem and has not been back on RCU, we are just talkin amongst are selves


[QUOTE]Originally posted by slammin_sam
I had a similar problem a few weeks ago. After replacing everything including the motor I discovered that there was a small hole in the fule line inside the tank. As long as the fuel level was above the hole everything was fine. Once the fuel got a little low or I kept the plane heading up for more than a few seconds, it started sucking air. Worth a try. [/QUOTE]

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 13

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 8:57:12 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Piggy:

The bladder tank solved every fuel feed problem I've had with all brands engines.

And how are your fingers?

Bill.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to RCAdd1ct)
       Post #: 14

Saito 180 flaming out - 4/2/2003 9:08:22 AM   
PigMan Buggerus



Posts: 827
Joined: 11/26/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		They're bending! I finally got the Cap 2