RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-Discussion

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-Discussion
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RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-Di... - 6/20/2008 7:33:24 PM

Metallover

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From: Brandon, SD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to

quote:

ORIGINAL: Metallover

The Mamba monster is out, but it is just out of stock everywhere. Some people have had problems with it just dieing without any signs of malfunction. That is what may be delaying it coming back in stock.

That's a non issue because the Mamba Max with BEC will handle 6s Lipo.

I think that is pushing it a little bit. I'd go 5s lipo, but I'd be real careful on 6s.

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If the mamba 8000kv is overkill...

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Post #: 376

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-Di... - 6/20/2008 7:54:08 PM

go-to

Posts: 1261
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Lafayette, LA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Metallover
I think that is pushing it a little bit. I'd go 5s lipo, but I'd be real careful on 6s.

It's been done so no real concern. However, for me I'd doubt the truck is drivable at that point!

4s Lipo with the 540-8XL will do back-flips with no effort so it's already too much (and long run-times too).

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Post #: 377

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-Di... - 6/22/2008 9:25:05 PM

dhyde79

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From: Amarillo, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to
What parts do you still *need* to make the conversion?

well, that's what I'm not entirely sure of, the motor, the ESC, and then I'll build a battery pack setup myself...so, that's probably it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to
The Mamba Monster will be a great ESC if/when it comes out and will likely retail for ~$170. A Mamba Max and BEC will cost around $150 on eBay.

ok, help me out here, I thought the mamba max already had a 5V BEC built in....what do I need a separate BEC for?

quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to
The motor is $70 at Offshore Electrics, and I've found the Integy motor heatsink with fan for around $12 on eBay.

I've read a lot of places saying they've quit carrying the feigo motors due to warrenty problems......what're the other good options? (will a mamba max 4600 motor actually work or does it not have enough grunt to run the savvy?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to
Other than that you need a battery and a way to mount all these pieces. Depends on how you want to mount the batteries it can be anything from free fabbed yourself or expensive with the FLM kit or anything in-between. Choose your poison my friend!

if I go the electric route, I'll probably switch to a servo plate and move the electronics (radio/ESC/whatever else) to behind the motor infront of the rear bulk and put the whole spot where the radio box is now to slap a battery mount setup.

quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to
I'd leave the tranny alone and have the shifting...you'll likely need to adjust the shift-points. Retain the reverse module and use it as you always have...set the ESC to have no reverse rotation and use the system as you would have before.

reverse module is a total piece and hasn't worked right since it was put in, won't shift all the way when the truck is running, but when it's off it works great, to the point that the servo throws far enough it actually tweaks the battery box while solidly mounted in the TVP's. I like the way my electric TC's allow brake/drag brake/reverse all from one unit. Solidifying the OWB in the transmission on the input shaft would allow all of those as well as lightening by not needing the external brakes, not needing the brake servo, linkage, and all of that, it'd move so that there's no linkage to need to adjust or anything else too...

quote:

ORIGINAL: go-to
For me (wanting the FLM conversion kit) things are going to get very expensive very quickly...on top of that I want to run a 4s Lipo battery. I can't stand the look of the batteries outboard of the TVP.

yeah, I'm with ya there, that's why I'm considering doing the mod to move the electronics to the rear and just slap the batteries up front.

also, in doing this, is there any suggestions for what can be done to make a unit that's capable of being run through water and such without worrying about it? I know the traxxas setup is actually waterproof, but, I'm also trying to avoid putting anything with that name on my truck.....

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Post #: 378

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-Di... - 6/22/2008 9:40:28 PM

go-to

Posts: 1261
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Lafayette, LA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhyde79

well, that's what I'm not entirely sure of, the motor, the ESC, and then I'll build a battery pack setup myself...so, that's probably it.

ok, help me out here, I thought the mamba max already had a 5V BEC built in....what do I need a separate BEC for?

The Mamba Max doesn't have a BEC, but the Mamba Monster does.

quote:

I've read a lot of places saying they've quit carrying the feigo motors due to warrenty problems......what're the other good options? (will a mamba max 4600 motor actually work or does it not have enough grunt to run the savvy?)

The Max motor won't cut it. The Neu motors will come in package deals with the Mamba Monster, but are quite costly.

quote:

if I go the electric route, I'll probably switch to a servo plate and move the electronics (radio/ESC/whatever else) to behind the motor infront of the rear bulk and put the whole spot where the radio box is now to slap a battery mount setup.

Good plan...

quote:

reverse module is a total piece and hasn't worked right since it was put in, won't shift all the way when the truck is running, but when it's off it works great, to the point that the servo throws far enough it actually tweaks the battery box while solidly mounted in the TVP's. I like the way my electric TC's allow brake/drag brake/reverse all from one unit. Solidifying the OWB in the transmission on the input shaft would allow all of those as well as lightening by not needing the external brakes, not needing the brake servo, linkage, and all of that, it'd move so that there's no linkage to need to adjust or anything else too...

I understand now. Well I haven't looked at locking the tranny so I don't know. Doesn't sound hard to accomplish though.

quote:

also, in doing this, is there any suggestions for what can be done to make a unit that's capable of being run through water and such without worrying about it? I know the traxxas setup is actually waterproof, but, I'm also trying to avoid putting anything with that name on my truck.....

The ESC in the E-Revo isn't waterproof as far as I know...that would be a good controller to use if it were.

< Message edited by go-to -- 6/22/2008 9:44:41 PM >

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Post #: 379

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 12:45:57 AM

Metallover

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From: Brandon, SD, USA
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The Mamba max has a built in bec, but you can't use it over 3s lipo, so don't count on it.

Im not sure on the e-revo esc, but I think it is the same one in the new E-maxx which is waterproof. I think you're looking for a brushless though, and that one is brushed. I saw an e-revo in my lhs today and it was SWEEEEEEET.

_____________________________

Dimebag Darrel 1966-2004 RIP
If the mamba 8000kv is overkill...

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Post #: 380

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 5:28:34 AM

badboy2

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Joined: 1/22/2003
From: edison, NJ, USA
Status: offline

this was my conversion i did last year ,now i got the flm chassis on it..
i have feigao 8xl and quark monster esc with 12cells 3800mah for now..

< Message edited by badboy2 -- 6/23/2008 5:33:46 AM >

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Post #: 381

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 6:00:48 AM

dhyde79

Posts: 910
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: Amarillo, TX, USA
Status: offline

the big thing there is, I won't be switching the truck to LiPo, and if I do, it won't be to anything over 2S or 3S because that's all my TC's can handle, and if/when I go electric on the savvy, I won't switch it to anything that the batteries can't go back and forth on.

as far as the motor not working, is there a particular reason why not? not enough torque or what? I'd already figured I'd have to gear it WAY down to keep it controllable, especially since I don't foresee RPM's being an issue. The brushless setup I have in my Losi Triple X-S with 12 cells runs over 80K (granted, that's getting pretty HOT but, if I'm cooling it that'll be fine.....) what about dual ESC/Motor combos? Would that help to overcome whatever the problem with the mamba motors would have?

as far as the traxxas setup, I was talking about their velineon (or however it's spelled) brushless setup, motor and ESC are supposedly waterproofed.

another thought on the waterproofing, what happens if I go the route of putting all of the electronics in a sealed plastic box and run the wires out through holes that're patched with silicone? do the ESC's get that obscenely hot that it's a danger to seal them up? I notice that the electric boats seal theirs up in watertight boxes, it poses the question, if they can, why can't we with a truck/car, as far as my memory serves, the mamba on my TC never gets hot enough that it even feels warm to the touch, so I wouldn't think it should be that big of a deal, especially running non-lipo batteries.

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Post #: 382

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 4:13:17 PM

go-to

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Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Lafayette, LA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Metallover

The Mamba max has a built in bec, but you can't use it over 3s lipo, so don't count on it.

Im not sure on the e-revo esc, but I think it is the same one in the new E-maxx which is waterproof. I think you're looking for a brushless though, and that one is brushed. I saw an e-revo in my lhs today and it was SWEEEEEEET.

The E-Revo can handle a brushless swap...check it out on the site. It's ready for brushless motors.

You're right on the Mamba Max having a BEC. I forgot all about that...

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Savage X SS, FLM LCG TVP, Axial .28, 3-speed, 18/49
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Post #: 383

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 4:28:01 PM

AutoXMan

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From: Trumbull, CT, USA
Status: online

He meant the ESC that comes with the E-revo is brushed motors only.

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Post #: 384

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 5:00:53 PM

go-to

Posts: 1261
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Lafayette, LA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AutoXMan

He meant the ESC that comes with the E-revo is brushed motors only.

I did get that...

http://www.traxxas.com/products/electric/erevo5605/intro/5605-intro5.htm

http://www.traxxas.com/products/electric/erevo5605/intro/5605-intro13.htm

That doesn't say whether or not the ESC needs to be changed (there's no mention of the ESC brushless capability)...unclear basically, but it *does* mention being waterproof and 16.8v capable. I have an e-mail in to Traxxas about it. We shall see shortly.

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Savage X SS, FLM LCG TVP, Axial .28, 3-speed, 18/49
Savage 25, SureFire 32R RB Mods, 4-gears diff's, 2-speed, 18/47

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Post #: 385

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 5:21:36 PM

Metallover

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From: Brandon, SD, USA
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dhyde - Most brushless setups in 1/8th conversions use 2 nimh batteries (6-8 cell) or one big lipo (4-6 cell). You could run two 2s or 3s lipos just like you would run nimh. That would suit your needs.

If you are talking about the mamba max motors, they just don't have enough power. I think you could run an ammo motor in a savage, which is what I might do. You could get a 4 pole medusa, which is 4 pole and similar to a Neu. The ammo and Medusa a still a little small, but much bigger than the mamba max motors. Most people run motors like the fiegao 8XL, Neu 1515/1y, and nemesis blue XLTx. I don't think dual brushless is good from what I heard, but I'm not going to expand on that. do a search on it.

The mamba monster max is coming out with a motor/esc combo which will be great in a savage. It will use a Neu based motor (1515/1y) and sell for around 300 dollars. When you figure a Neu motor like that costs.. what... 280? That is a pretty good deal.

The only brushless setup I know would be one for boats like the http://www.finedesignrc.com/speedcontrolscastle.aspcastle creations hydra or barracuda. Some of those require water cooling, so watch out for that when searching for some.
http://www.finedesignrc.com/ct-losi.aspThis website sells electric conversions, some with boat escs.
Then you have the motor...

_____________________________

Dimebag Darrel 1966-2004 RIP
If the mamba 8000kv is overkill...

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Post #: 386

RE: Savage X SS Brushless Conversion Build-D... - 6/23/2008 10:03:05 PM

dhyde79

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From: Amarillo, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Metallover

Most brushless setups in 1/8th conversions use 2 nimh batteries (6-8 cell) or one big lipo (4-6 cell). You could run two 2s or 3s lipos just like you would run nimh. That would suit your needs.

if I go lipo, it'll be 2s at most, that way I'm not wasting a bunch of money on batteries that're only usable on one vehicle instead of on all three of my RC cars.....

quote:

If you are talking about the mamba max motors, they just don't have enough power. I think you could run an ammo motor in a savage, which is what I might do. You could get a 4 pole medusa, which is 4 pole and similar to a Neu. The ammo and Medusa a still a little small, but much bigger than the mamba max motors. Most people run motors like the fiegao 8XL, Neu 1515/1y, and nemesis blue XLTx. I don't think dual brushless is good from what I heard, but I'm not going to expand on that. do a search on it.

ok, with the medusa, do I want the 32mm, 40mm, or 56mm in length? also, working from the 56mm one, is 417W good enough or do I need more power? also, with that being a 3.17mm shaft, what do I have to come up with to make the 5mm pinions fit? or are there smaller mod1 pinions?

on second thought the medusa does have a 5mm shaft version (Afterburner V2) with a 920W rating, but, is only 2000rpm/volt, which, is a bit slow....running 12 cells non-lipo I'd be LUCKY to get to 60mph with the high speed 3rd gear, or a 700W version at 3300rpm/volt which would certainly get me the speed without taking a hit in having to go crazy with batteries....

the 920W version puts me in at 1.24HP and 700W version at .94HP....coming from an LRP Spec3 I've got a terrible hunch that I'd lose a LOT of power......

what're other suggestions?

< Message edited by dhyde79 -- 6/23/2008 10:47:04 PM >

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