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RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/14/2007 12:44:50 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Red,
That is what I was thinking, as far as using flaps on the SSE. I have a buddy whom flies CL stunt and his planes can do a lot of wild aerobatics that we can only think of with RC, a R/C plane doing F2b stunts, now we are talking! The more I thought about the reduction of control authority in hover the less it mattered because if I not all that interest in hovering an airplane. Your post cemented my original idea of adding flaps to this plane, thanks for the info.

_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to Red B.)
       Post #: 26

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/14/2007 4:44:06 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I added some pictures from the other night which show the detail of the ribs. You might note the top spar is installed already, that is because of the typical I beam shear web setup I chosen to use a two sided box type of web and spar assembly. The reason for this is two fold it adds a lot of torsional strength as well as allowing for a better glue bond area between the webbing and the spar. I am using 1/16 balsa for each side of the shear web instead of the normal 3/32 thick stock that is normally used, so I will not be adding all that much weight considering I am adding a total of 1/32 of an inch to total thickness.

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_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to iron eagel)
       Post #: 27

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/14/2007 5:56:21 PM   
MasterAlex



Posts: 509
Joined: 6/26/2005
From: Central, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red B.

If you haven't tried a SSE with flaps you don't know what you are missing. IMHO flaps turns this great aircraft into a spectacular one.
Slow flight is can beridiculously slow, very steep STOL-type landings are a blast and a little bit of crow mixing makes harriers a piece of cake.
As an old time C/L stunt flier I enjoy emulating the F2B stunt pattern with my SSE, the maneuvers are a little bit bigger, but the SSE corners really well with flap elevator coupling.
Try flaps, I can almost guarantee you will like it! I have flown SSE's with and without flap servos in the wings and the difference in roll performance is minimal. With a computer radio it is easy to couple flaps and ailerons to work together as big ailerons.

Without a doubt, the flap equipped SSE is my all time favourite aircraft.


Red

That's one sweet looking SSE! I'm sure there's another one in my not so distant future - it will definitely have a set of flaps on her.

-MA

_____________________________

"Few good landings result from poor approaches, while few poor landings result from good approaches." -S. Stoops

(in reply to Red B.)
       Post #: 28

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/14/2007 7:43:42 PM   
vmsguy


 

Posts: 466
Joined: 4/4/2007
From: Woodville, WI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red B.

If you haven't tried a SSE with flaps you don't know what you are missing.
[snip]

Try flaps, I can almost guarantee you will like it! I have flown SSE's with and without flap servos in the wings and the difference in roll performance is minimal. With a computer radio it is easy to couple flaps and ailerons to work together as big ailerons.

Without a doubt, the flap equipped SSE is my all time favourite aircraft.


Nice SSE!!! I've been considering one for some time... I have a couple quick questions.

1. I noticed you used pin hinges. Could you tell me more. Size, brand, etc. Looks like you used 4 on each aileron, 3 on each flap.

2. Looks like you have all for servos connected the same, the "inside" arm of the servo is connected to the flap or aileron. I presume you're using a Y cable on the aileron servos, then each flap servo on its own channel, then letting the radio sort it all out?

3. Reinforcing wires on the stab/rudder? Is that a mod?

TIA

Lyndon

_____________________________

“It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill." - Wilbur Wright

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       Post #: 29

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/14/2007 9:38:07 PM   
Red B.


 

Posts: 1006
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Jonkoping, SWEDEN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vmsguy

Nice SSE!!! I've been considering one for some time... I have a couple quick questions.

1. I noticed you used pin hinges. Could you tell me more. Size, brand, etc. Looks like you used 4 on each aileron, 3 on each flap.

Sorry, I don't know the brand. They may be German Kavan ones.

quote:

2. Looks like you have all for servos connected the same, the "inside" arm of the servo is connected to the flap or aileron. I presume you're using a Y cable on the aileron servos, then each flap servo on its own channel, then letting the radio sort it all out?

All four servos are connected to individual channels. No Y cables are used. In that way I have full freedom to do any mixing I want, e.g., elevator-flap mixing, crow, flaps with drooping ailerons, and aileron to flap mixing for those times when I want maximum aileron response.

quote:

3. Reinforcing wires on the stab/rudder? Is that a mod?

No, it's according to the plan. With the exception of the flaps and the tail wheel (Du-Bro) it is a standard SSE.
The covering is Monokote Pearl Red and Pearl White.


_____________________________

/Red B.

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       Post #: 30

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/15/2007 2:48:47 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Red B,

You are using 4 channels for your ailerons and flaps, may I ask what type of radio setup are you using to control this plane. I have a Hitech 7 channel, and I do not think it will work for this type of setup, perhaps it will but I have little knowledge of computer radios, or their programing, other than the most basic of setups. from what I have seen the Hitech has limited mixes and assignment you can do to each channel.
Perhaps you can suggest a Radio setup that I can program in such a manner, or advise on how to do it with my current radios .

_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to Red B.)
       Post #: 31

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/15/2007 9:49:10 AM   
Red B.


 

Posts: 1006
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Jonkoping, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		I used an old 8 channel JR 388s Tx. I forgot to write that each elevator half was connected to different channels as well. In that way I could use "tailevator" mixing, i.e., the elevators works together as ailerons as well as elevators. FYI, that is a waste of channels as it provides very little extra aileron authority.

I dont know about your Hitec, but probably there are a couple of pre-defined mixers for elevator-flap mixing and perhaps crow mixing that you can use together with Y-cables. IMHO the most essential mix with the SSE is the elevator-flap one, i.e., when the elevator goes up the flaps move down and vice versa. Anyting extra is the icing on the cake :-).

Sadly my SSE is no more. I had a serious case of brain-fade that caused its demise. However, I have a new kit waiting to be built ASAP.

< Message edited by Red B. -- 12/15/2007 2:25:27 PM >

_____________________________

/Red B.

(in reply to iron eagel)
       Post #: 32

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/16/2007 1:49:10 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Red B.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my question.
The flap/elevator mix of the type used in control line stunt is what really made me to go ahead with the adding of flaps. I have a friend whom is into CL stunt and the response of his airplanes to control input is amazing. My Hitech has a few options for mixing but to be honest I am going to have to sit down with the manual to figure it out. There really does not seem to be an easy way to assign multipul channel mixing but I am probably wrong. I have only been back into flying R/C for 3 years now after a long absence and computer radios are still fairly new to me. Although this might be a good excuse for a spectrum radio with lots of channels, that will get me into some trouble with the wife I am sure.

_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to Red B.)
       Post #: 33

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/17/2007 12:51:31 PM   
Red B.


 

Posts: 1006
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Jonkoping, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		If your 7 channel Hitec Tx is an Eclipse it appears that it is possible to arrange an elevator-flap mix.
See page 23 in the manual.

_____________________________

/Red B.

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       Post #: 34

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/17/2007 10:08:48 PM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Red B.

My radio is indeed an Eclipse I will have to check out page 23, as I said before I have only used the most basic of the control functions of the radio. I have to take the time to fully understand what you can do with these new radios, I have not needed any of the options they offer thus far. It will be nice to fly a sport plane and avail myself of all of the bells and whistles that you have with the new radios today.
Now off to glue some more balsa....

_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to Red B.)
       Post #: 35

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/18/2007 6:44:48 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Some more pictures, notice the notch on the rear spar where the ribs join to them,and another with the shear webs are installed


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_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to iron eagel)
       Post #: 36

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/23/2007 4:59:22 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1211
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Well got the servo mounting rails installed and I am now ready to sheath the top of the wing. When all was said and done I have moved the mass for the servos inboard by 8 inches. The mass of the servo has been moved from 11 ½ inches from the axis to 5 ½ inches. I am curious as to how that will affect the roll response???

I also manage to glue up the aileron for the left side, so at this point all of the internal structure of the wing is built. I had thought about installing blocking to support the aileron pull/pull guide tubes, but opted instead to use fairing on the guide tubes to secure the tubes to the sheathing after it is installed. There is more than enough room to fish them through the wing after it is sheathed and secure them to retainers near the servo mounts. Both of the servos and linkage will be accessed by a hatch installed on the lower side of the wing, which will be installed after the top is sheathed and the wing can be flipped over to have the bottom sheathing installed.



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_____________________________

The Wrights never crashed, they only had hard landings. I 've had some hard landings myself. AMA EAA AOPA revver #185

(in reply to iron eagel)
       Post #: 37

RE: Yet another Sig Something Extra Build - 12/23/2007 5:21:45 PM   
vmsguy


 

Posts: 466
Joined: 4/4/2007
From: Woodville, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Keep up the good work.. I keep hoping SIG will come out with a 60 sized SSE, but even if they don't, the 40 size version is on my wishlist...

_____________________________

“It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill." - Wilbur Wright

(in reply to iron eagel)