RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props
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RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 5:21:42 AM

jbudd

Posts: 42
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: patternflyer1

Jerry, (aren't you on vacation?)

Yeah, but Rosie is asleep right now so I thought I'd check in and see how you're doing! We bicycled down Haleakala volcano this morning, 27 miles, after getting up at 2 AM to watch the sunrise at 10k feet, so she's kinda tired, even though all but ~100 yards of it was downhill! Tomorrow we do the Road to Hana in a limo van and then fly back to Kahului by helicopter after swimming and lunch. LOL Just another day in paradise!

quote:

Remember Frak making jokes about the fact that from a distance he couldn't tell if I was flying glow or electric? Well, 2 did the same thing today. So I pulled the spinner, and found a crack in the aluminum hub again, and also my can had pulled away 3/32" completely. This motor has 10 flights.. I'm sure DS will say it was from the bad batch also.. Well, hopefully..
I do believe these motors have potential, they just need a one piece hub and can like the Axi and high quality bearings..
My replacement motor will be here in a few days I would guess (hopefully by tomorrow at 6am) , I'll let ya'll know what I find with the new one.. Hope it's better.. I really hope it's better.. (I can hear Chad laughing now)(Pletty, Pletty, Pletty)..

Chris

Oh, I don't know that he's laughing, maybe a smirk or two followed by a roll of the eyes... [)] Hey to Chad!

I'll tell you this - I'm feeling a bit like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day seeing you guys go through this. It's almost painful to watch. The unfortunate part is that when the DS motor's working well, and not making a lot of noise (mine were never quiet), they're a pretty good motor. Of course that's like saying that YS's motors are great - except for when you're having a problem with one!

Jerry

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Thx, Jerry

(in reply to patternflyer1)

Post #: 126

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 5:45:45 AM

patternflyer1

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline

I knew you'd get a laugh outta that Chad.. If I can't make this motor work for me, I may have to go to the even darker side with you snow people...

But heck, then I'd have to put ski's on my planes, or at least chains on the tires.. Back to the Axi for tomorrow's workout..

C

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Post #: 127

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 5:49:22 AM

jbudd

Posts: 42
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Quartz Hill, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ual767

One solution is to remove the shaft and press it back in backwards. That will eliminate the stress on the alum arms from the prop adapter. I know the factory says not do do it, but several of us have them this way and have no problems and no cracks so far.

Chris - do you have the supplied drive washer located all the way back against the rotor housing (I can't tell from your photo)? If you do, then there wouldn't be any compressive load from tightening the prop being transfered to the cross-pin, it would only see the torque from the prop gyroscopic loads, which would be minimal. That would eliminate the likelihood of a shaft failure through the hole in the shaft like Steve and I had happen. Front mounted the smart way to do it is to use a small length of aluminum tubing slipped over the shaft to space a tapered collet-type drive washer (like a Hacker) away from the front of the motor to get the prop spacing you need. While the hole definitely weakens the shaft, it's probably strong enough if one leaves the pin out.

As far as the prop adapter adding stress to the alum arms, I don't think it does. All of the loads imposed on the outer can by the magnetic field are transfered to the shaft through the alum arms (arches might be a better word), whether the prop is mounted on the front of the motor or the rear would have little effect on those loads (prop location would have an effect on the shaft loads however). One could even argue that clamping the aluminum prop adapter to the rear of the motor actually relieves the loads on the arms/archs somewhat, assuming it fits properly.

It would appear that the arms/archs are poorly designed and fabricated, being cast instead of machined and heat treated, and also with several sharp corners that promote stress concentrations at locations that are critical for load transfer under operation. It shouldn't be hard for them to fix, but the current design looks flawed nonetheless. As always, YMMV.

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Thx, Jerry

(in reply to ual767)

Post #: 128

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 6:13:51 AM

patternflyer1

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline

Where does the load come from? The magnets first. The load into the arches to the prop is just too much IMO..
Lets remember here that the bolt on prop adapter on this setup, bolts directly over the part of the arches that the shaft is pressed into.. The prop load to me is pulling against the back bearing with the brass collet.. The can and the outer arm is just along for the ride from prop load.. But I'm guessing the magnetic load transferring from the can through the arches is too much for the little arches with prop load.. Seems logical, but I'm tired.. lol..

Have fun tomorrow Jerry..

C

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Post #: 129

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 6:55:55 AM

shannah

Posts: 202
Joined: 9/6/2004
From: placentia, CA, USA
Status: offline

My guess is that the motor casing is not properly balanced on some of these. That might explain the wobble and cracks. Add to that the fact that the apc props are always drilled off center and you have a bad situation. I pulled my DS out and mounted the Axi back in. Then, after tearing the DS apart and carefully inspecting it..... I removed the Axi and put the DS back in. I just think its better than the Axi.

So, for now I've got the DS. I'm running the mejzlik prop and I think it is much truer and better balanced so hopefully I'll have good luck.

That being said, I had the order page pulled up for the plett, but didn't do it. Maybe tomorrow.....

(in reply to patternflyer1)

Post #: 130

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 7:03:38 AM

Paul_K

Posts: 33
Joined: 8/10/2005
From: Trondheim, NORWAY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: shannah

That being said, I had the order page pulled up for the plett, but didn't do it. Maybe tomorrow.....

The Plettenberg is on top of my wishlist too. Just have to get some funds first... Where would you order it? I know of Icare-rc in Canada - anyone else I should know of?

(in reply to shannah)

Post #: 131

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 2:32:17 PM

mups53

Posts: 1058
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
Status: online

What prop size are you using? I think your right about the props tearing the motors up. The more I've ran E. the more I worry about it. Thanks, Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: shannah

My guess is that the motor casing is not properly balanced on some of these. That might explain the wobble and cracks. Add to that the fact that the apc props are always drilled off center and you have a bad situation. I pulled my DS out and mounted the Axi back in. Then, after tearing the DS apart and carefully inspecting it..... I removed the Axi and put the DS back in. I just think its better than the Axi.

So, for now I've got the DS. I'm running the mejzlik prop and I think it is much truer and better balanced so hopefully I'll have good luck.

That being said, I had the order page pulled up for the plett, but didn't do it. Maybe tomorrow.....

(in reply to shannah)

Post #: 132

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 3:46:31 PM

shannah

Posts: 202
Joined: 9/6/2004
From: placentia, CA, USA
Status: offline

I'm running the Mejzlik 20.5x12W e-prop. I really like it on the Dualsky 6360-12T. I think it has better downline braking than the 20x15 apc, it seems smoother and quieter as well.

(in reply to mups53)

Post #: 133

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 5:01:20 PM

patternflyer1

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline

Mike, did the earthquake get ya?

I ran a 22x12-21x13w on the first motor, and a 20x15 on this motor.. I suspect the bearings are cheap and that's causing issues with internal heat.

C

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Post #: 134

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 6:00:21 PM

mups53

Posts: 1058
Joined: 1/15/2002
From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
Status: online

Hey Chris I can't stop laughin. A guy from California asking a guy from Chicago about an earthquake. My wife said it woke her up, not me. I guess that we actually sit on a major fault called the New Madris. There were people on the radio shows this morning who we're wondering if you could get Lake Michiagan to have a Tsunami.
Thanks for the info, Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: patternflyer1

Mike, did the earthquake get ya?

I ran a 22x12-21x13w on the first motor, and a 20x15 on this motor.. I suspect the bearings are cheap and that's causing issues with internal heat.

C

(in reply to patternflyer1)

Post #: 135

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 6:51:57 PM

patternflyer1

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline

Yeah, it made me laugh when I thought about it. I wanted to say something like, "did the earthquake get ya? Man you should move to cali, at least you could fly year round and wear shorts.." And the earthquakes wouldn't wake ya.." lol
Glad you're ok..

C

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Post #: 136

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 9:07:44 PM

Paul_K

Posts: 33
Joined: 8/10/2005
From: Trondheim, NORWAY
Status: offline

I got my 11T replacement motor today. After a very thorough check, for trueness and cracks, I bolted it in my plane and went out for four flights. These motors runs sooo smooth and silent when they are OK. The airplane is wispering across the sky. I really hope Dualsky get their quality issures sorted out as I like this motor a lot.

I run a APC 20x13E, and the bolt hole is centered. I hope this motor lasts a long time without issues

(in reply to patternflyer1)

Post #: 137

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 9:31:03 PM

patternflyer1

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline

Glad to hear you got it already.. I have to agree, they are smooth and quiet at first.. I gotta think we just got a bad couple of motors.. Let's hope.. I like the motor also.. But I haven't had many flights on either of mine.. Time will tell.. Although, there's not much time before next weekends contest, lol..

C

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Post #: 138

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/18/2008 10:09:09 PM

patternflyer1

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline

Spoke too soon. Just got my motor after a ring at the door.. Priority mail. Must say I'm impressed with 2 dog for that.. This motor was packaged in a smaller box, in bubble wrap. The last two were in a larger box just rolling around... When I spin the can on this one, it spins really easily.. Both of the old ones are tough to spin, like the magnets are much stronger.. Strange.. How are yours?

Thanks,

Chris

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Post #: 139

RE: Dualsky 6360-12T props - 4/19/2008 12:32:53 AM

woodie

Posts: 268
Joined: 6/10/2002
From: Placerville, CA, USA
Status: offline