RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS!

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS!
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RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/23/2007 3:54:34 PM

JPMacG

Posts: 1173
Joined: 1/2/2002
From: Ivyland, PA, USA
Status: offline

I think all this discussion provides an explanation of why Morgan can claim that CP requires no ARO. It is a nice advertising claim that will probably sell more fuel, and it is impossible to disprove. If someone complains to them that their bearings rusted using CP without ARO they would just say he ran too lean or too rich or ...

< Message edited by JPMacG -- 11/23/2007 3:55:45 PM >

(in reply to Kmot)

Post #: 51

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/23/2007 4:12:06 PM

bla bla

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline

Just about 95% of the F3A crowd running YS's are using CP 30%heli exclusively.
These guys are pouring at least 50-60 gallons a season, (not year)...a season through their motors... and aren't ever using after run oil!
I've run the same fuel through my YS's for years and all thats done after a day at the feild is to drain the tank and run the engine dry.
Thats the technque used by just about everyone. NO PROBLEMS at all. Never had rusting problems so don't blame CP. The 30% is the nurmber 1 proffessional fliers fuel... used internationally by the pattern and heli competitors. If it's good enough for them... well you know the rest.

Busted engines. Rusted engines, Problem engines...
they're definately Sunday sporty engines.
Wonder why?

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(in reply to Kmot)

Post #: 52

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/23/2007 5:00:22 PM

Jezmo

Posts: 821
Joined: 6/26/2006
From: Spring, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej

quote:

ORIGINAL: proptop
Sometimes my planes sit for weeks...but the engines w/ ARO are nice and free with smooth bearings, so the oil I'm using seems to be working?

One of the reasons I use ARO (in my case either Rislone or ATF) is that it seems to prevent the castor from coagulating even in engines that have been unused for several years.

I have never experienced any undesireable side effects from ARO. Even engines that have been heavily oiled and stored start immediately and plug life is unaffected.

Let me hasten to add that I am quite sure there are those whose experiences and opinions are diametricaly opposed to mine. I encourage all to employ such practices as their experience, training, mood and the phase of the moon dictate.

jess

Never tried Rislone, but ATF, Marvel Mystery oil, and 3in1 are in my arsenal . My experience is consistent with your own and I agree completely with your last paragraph. I don't use anything unless I am going to let them sit for more than a week or so. Just my two cents.

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(in reply to jessiej)

Post #: 53

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/23/2007 5:14:25 PM

Flyboy Dave

Posts: 13447
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
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If one were to read all the posts here on RCU pertaining to rusted bearings, one
would find that Cruel Power was involved in almost all the rusting and corroding
problems, and just about always in two stroke motors.

Keep in mind that YS engines have sealed crankcases. Like I said before, I
think one of my keys to sucess for not having rusted bearings, even though I lived
in a salt air (highly corrosive) environment, was sealing the exhaust of the engine
to keep the oil from dripping out. This also prevented air (with moisture) from getting
into the engine....

....no moisture, no rust.

FBD.

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An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to bla bla)

Post #: 54

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 5:43:27 PM

Valve floater

Posts: 120
Joined: 8/2/2007
From: Port Allen, LA, USA
Status: offline

I just replaced bearing in my 1yr old Satio 100. I used omega 15% non syn, and sometimes riches brew. Did not use afterrun oil. Some said. You don`t need that!. Believe me you do! I now use marval mys. oil. Better yet, i have ceramic bearings in it that i got from RCbearings.com for $35.00. My first set in an OS from Boca was $80.00. The Satio was stock bearings. Everybody has a diff. story about rusty bearings, but you have to take into account the area you live in. We have at times 100% humidity in south Louisiana. That`s why i could kick myself for not using afterrun oil. I don`t fly but twice a month. If you live where the air is dry you probably can`t compare, but i would still use it. I still use it with ceramics but i don`t have to worry as much.

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< Message edited by Valve floater -- 11/24/2007 5:45:09 PM >

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(in reply to jessiej)

Post #: 55

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 6:45:21 PM

rctrax

Posts: 597
Joined: 5/11/2002
From: Mosinee, WI, USA
Status: offline

I gave up using ARO some time ago[2-4yrs] and I have never had any rust in any of my engines. For many years I didn't even know it was suposedly needed but started using it because poeple said it was required.Soon It became a hastle so I quite altogether,Somrtimes after a crash it isn't even possible to run the engine out of fuel so it stays in there until the next time I run the engine. I have never had rust in any engine in the 40 to 60 years I have been modeling.

(in reply to jessiej)

Post #: 56

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 6:47:46 PM

Flyboy Dave

Posts: 13447
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline

I was thinking about this topic (ARO) on Thanksgiving day driving out to my
Mom's house, about 4 hour round trip. I was day dreaming about when I was
working as the service manager in the later stages of my motorcycle mechanic
career....almost 20 years of nothing but engines of all sorts.

A guy walks up to the service window and says...."I squirted a bunch of automatic
transmission into the crankcase of my engine". My immediate reaction was to wonder
why on Earth would someone do that ! He said he wanted to make sure he had rust
protection on his bearings. I kept a straight face.

Another young man walks up to the window with another bike and tells me he squirted
a bunch of air tool oil into his engine....to prevent his engine from rusting. Both bikes
wouldn't run because the oil was fouling the plugs. Again I keep a straight face as I
quote our customer a price to flush out his engine of the foreign material, and get the
machine back into proper service....an hours labor will suffice.

Did it ever occur to you ARO users to use some proper oil ? I'll bet you read about this ARO
thing on the Internet, or saw someone using some at the field, and got the bug to use some
yourself. And since the guys are using these concoctions of garage mixed fluids, you supposed
it would be proper as well.

How about using a fluid that is specifically designed to lubricate your engine ? Keep in mind
that neither ATF of air tool oil oil is meant to be burned in an internal combustion engine.
How about an oil that is specifically designed to prevent rust in your engine, and the best
part....an oil that is designed to burn as a mix....and best of all, it burns absolutely clean.

Did it ever occur to anyone to use an ARO that is compatible with the oil that is already in
most aero-model fuels ? Probably not, but is has occurred to me.

Is your fuel pink or red in color ? Most fuels used to be, and a lot of them still are. That pink
color is from the Klotz two cycle oil in your fuel. It has been a staple of lubricants since the
early 70's, and it is a good oil. In fact it looks a lot like ATF coming out of the bottle. This oil
would make an excellant ARO because it is compatible with the oil that may already in your
fuel, it burns clean, it mixes with anything, and is readily available at you local motorcycle
shop, or off-road center.

What a concept, huh ? An oil that does expressly what you want it to do, in spades.

(lemme post this before I lose it somehow

)

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to Valve floater)

Post #: 57

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 7:06:30 PM

liquid_TR

Posts: 499
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: ISTANBUL, TURKEY
Status: offline

The ceramic bearing for our glow engines essentially have ceramic balls in the cage. The cage itself and rim is still metal, (usually steel). Unless you get FULL ceramic bearings (balls, cage and rim), rust problem will still be there no matter what.

And I know Ive said it earlier but, running your engines at least every 2 weeks is the best way too keep away from corrosion.

Even just for running them on the balcony or garage for 1 minute will be enough. There is usually no need to use any kind of preservative oil unless you put it away for more than 2-3 months (and that is if you live in a very humid area).

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LiQuid TR

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)

Post #: 58

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 7:17:27 PM

liquid_TR

Posts: 499
Joined: 4/8/2007
From: ISTANBUL, TURKEY
Status: offline

ATF is originally used in a very hostile, extremely high stress and pressure systems. It needs to protect planetary gear systems, power steering systems and drive the torque converter which is essetially driven by the oil pressure. All these gears, and mechanical parts wear - slowly. What ATF does besides lubricating these close contact extreme pressure parts is keep the whole system clean and protect them from corrosion. And it CAN be burned without any harm because its a mineral based oil.

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Post #: 59

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 7:56:47 PM

Kweasel

Posts: 1087
Joined: 1/7/2004
From: fort worth, TX, USA
Status: offline

Take a look at TCW-3 twocycle oil, its designed for corrosive enviroments.

(in reply to liquid_TR)

Post #: 60

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 9:03:31 PM

scratchonly

Posts: 945
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Status: offline

Quote from my grandmother "believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear".

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Post #: 61

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 9:12:40 PM

F.Imbriaco

Posts: 206
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: lebanon, NJ, USA
Status: offline

Recommend not using ATF type products In YS 4 strokes. It will damage silicone seals and certain regulator components. Mobil 1 (0-20 weight) preferred.

(in reply to jessiej)

Post #: 62

RE: DO NOT USE AFTER RUN OILS! - 11/24/2007 9:19:10 PM

jessiej

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/6/2003
From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
Did it ever occur to you ARO users to use some proper oil ? I'll bet you read about this ARO
thing on the Internet, or saw someone using some at the field, and got the bug to use some
yourself. And since the guys are using these concoctions of garage mixed fluids, you supposed
it would be proper as well.

How about using a fluid that is specifically designed to lubricate your engine ? Keep in mind
that neither ATF of air tool oil oil is meant to be burned in an internal combustion engine.
How about an oil that is specifically designed to prevent rust in your engine, and the best
part....an oil that is designed to burn as a mix....and best of all, it burns absolutely clean.

Did it ever occur to anyone to use an ARO that is compatible with the oil that is already in
most aero-model fuels ? Probably not, but is has occurred to me.

Is your fuel pink or red in color ? Most fuels used to be, and a lot of them still are. That pink
color is from the Klotz two cycle oil in your fuel. It has been a staple of lubricants since the
early 70's, and it is a good oil. In fact it looks a lot like ATF coming out of the bottle. This oil
would make an excellant ARO because it is compatible with the oil that may already in your
fuel, it burns clean, it mixes with anything, and is readily available at you local motorcycle
shop, or off-road center.

What a concept, huh ? An oil that does expressly what you want it to do, in spades.

(lemme post this before I lose it somehow )

FBD.

According to the Klotz website the Techniplate oils for glow fuel are NOT reccomended for storage. The Gasoline compatable R-50 and Modellube are rated as excelent for storage.

I first used ARO years before the internet after reading about the use of Rislone in a George Aldrich article. Having used castor in all of my engines I have not been plagued with rust but The AROs That I use (at a cosy of as much as eight or ten dollars over the past twenty years or so) have assured that I have never had to heat, clean, or otherwise be concerned with congealed castor when starting a long-stored engine.
LOf course should I ever encounter an ill effect of ATF or Rislone I will doubtless re-think the matter.

(in reply to Flyboy Dave)