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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - 3D & Aerobatic >> WildHare R/C Support >> RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft
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RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/1/2008 8:44:27 PM   
Rockyaged


 

Posts: 254
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Status: offline
Tom...

Are you charging the A123s thru the switches, or is it necessary
to dis-connect the batteries for charging?
Some pictures may be helpful to those who have had no
experience with giant scale aircraft, if some one could take the
time and effort.

Gerald

(in reply to rctom)
       Post #: 26

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 12:46:12 AM   
rctom



Posts: 5148
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Flower Mound (near Dallas), TX, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rockyaged


Tom...

Are you charging the A123s thru the switches, or is it necessary
to dis-connect the batteries for charging?

Gerald


I normally charge through a separate charge lead, but it can be done through the switch's charge jack if you wire it right.

TF

(in reply to Rockyaged)
       Post #: 27

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 5:57:15 AM   
aaxiss



Posts: 156
Joined: 12/18/2006
From: Orange, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I will clarify the through the switches charging procedure. if you prefer to charge through the switch you are going to have to make an adapter from the battery charge/balance tap ( cellpro ) to JR plug , no big deal you use the negative lead ( node 1 ) from cellpro to black on the JR switch, node 2 from cellpro tap to signal on JR switch and Node 3 from cellpro to Positive lead on JR switch. IMO it's alot easier just to use the leads coming out of the battery that are wired to go to the switch and pop your canopy and charge on the balance leads. The A123 cells can be safely be charged at 3C and I don't think the small wires and jr plugs will pass that much current safely. Not saying it cant be done but I wouldn't do it

ok here are pictures of my A123 cells I am going to use in my plane. the two jr type leads will go to a dual switch, both leads with power the RX vial a wolverine dual switch, the other tap is for charging, but as I have extra batteries I wont be doing any charging at the field, I will just swap the battery once it gets low enough on a 1 amp draw to not allow a 15 min flight.

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< Message edited by aaxiss -- 1/2/2008 9:03:59 AM >

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If there is a 40% plane out there drawing 42 amps it's because it has an on-board welder.

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       Post #: 28

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 2:42:44 PM   
Zeeb



Posts: 1789
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I have one caveat about balance charging through the switches...

IF you're running any of the Spektrum rx's, or the new JR 2.4GHz rx's which are the same as Spektrum, DO NOT DO THIS if any of the switched leads are three wire (all of the HD switches I've seen are three wire) and running into the Batt/Bind port, or in the case of the AR9000/9100 and JR R921 rx's into the Batt/Data ports. The reason being that those ports will have power applied to the signal lead from the A123 cells and that will run the power to ground.

The reason is that when you either bind the rx or use the data logger, that is accomplished by jumpering the signal and ground leads. The switches we're using for our models only turn the positive lead on and off, so the ground and signal leads are not disconnected from the rx when the switch is turned off.

Now I'm not sure what's gonna happen if you introduce voltage into the rx's if you use another port, but I can't help but think it wouldn't be good. My current plan is to just pull the hatch, but another alternative might be to put in a charge jack going from the battery pack to the side of the fuselage for charging.

Now is this an issue with the 72MHz stuff? I don't know what's going to happen with those if you put voltage into the signal port of the rx either, haven't looked into it as I've converted all my stuff to Spektrum.

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RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 4:17:04 PM   
jtsails


 

Posts: 146
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From: fayetteville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Zeeb,
I just remove the signal wire going from the switch to the receiver.
james

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       Post #: 30

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 4:37:47 PM   
Zeeb



Posts: 1789
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah that's what most guys are doing from what I've seen posted.

I didn't want to do that since even though access to the bind port isn't usually needed once they are setup, access to the data port must be available before you cut power to the rx or it loses the data. I need the three wires from the rx to the switches to access that, so I got rid of the balance lead on my packs.

It's still an issue tho for folks who run two packs because of the common ground problem, only one pack at a time should be charged unless it's a single charger with two outputs that can handle the common ground issue.

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Zeeb

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       Post #: 31

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 6:08:23 PM   
rctom



Posts: 5148
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Flower Mound (near Dallas), TX, USA
Status: online 		Getting into all of this can be confusing, and if you are not truly sure of what you are doing it's possible to have a pack that is not properly charged leading to disaster.

This is why I prefer to just have a separate charge lead for each A123 pack. It takes the switch setup out of the equation completely. This allows you to keep the binding and data logger capabilities through the charge jack, which are both real handy.



TF

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       Post #: 32

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 7:47:47 PM   
michael v


 

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/4/2007
From: pierrefonds, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		[/quote]
There is absolutely no need for more than 2300mah capacity, your 50cc plane will not use more than 250mah per 10 minute flight. That will give you at least 8 flights without a recharge.

The only reason to use 2 packs is for redundancy, in case a pack were to fail completely because of a bad cell or broken wire. This is a rare event, even more so with A123s because the cells are very rugged with a laser welded aluminum case.

I do recommend 2 switches and 2 plugs into the receiver to increase current capacity and to prevent failure in case of switch failure or if a connector were to come unplugged. You get packs from me or from Tanic with two output leads to connect to two switches.

Adding a second pack adds 5.5 oz. to the plane. I believe it's unnecessary, but it can't hurt if you are not concerned about a little weight.

2300mah will work fine on ignition but is overkill unless you need nose weight. I would either use a small 6v nimh pack 700-1200mah will work fine and weighs/costs much less. Or you can make a smaller A123 pack out of two Black and Decker cells from a VPX power pack.


TF

[/quote]
Hey Tom and everyone on r/c W/H forum.
I have the W/H Edge 540 V2 50cc,
In the above quote that is in bold about the 2 switchs, how do you use two switchs with one battery?
If you have pictures of this set-up I would like to see them.
Thanks
Michael in Montreal


< Message edited by michael v -- 1/2/2008 7:56:10 PM >

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RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 9:08:14 PM   
Jake Ruddy



Posts: 3012
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Newark, DE, USA
Status: offline 		Scroll up to post 28.. there is a pic of a battery there and it has 2 leads on it.

Because of the quality and power of A123s people are attaching 2 leads to a pack to use 2 switches.

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       Post #: 34

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 10:05:32 PM   
michael v


 

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/4/2007
From: pierrefonds, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		How do we test the battery to make sure that it is safe to use?
You know so my airplane it doesn't fall out if the sky.

Thanks by the way I must have skiped that thread#28
Later
Michael


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RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/2/2008 11:31:52 PM   
rctom



Posts: 5148
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Flower Mound (near Dallas), TX, USA
Status: online
quote:




I do recommend 2 switches and 2 plugs into the receiver to increase current capacity and to prevent failure in case of switch failure or if a connector were to come unplugged. You get packs from me or from Tanic with two output leads to connect to two switches.



Hey Tom and everyone on r/c W/H forum.
I have the W/H Edge 540 V2 50cc,
In the above quote that is in bold about the 2 switchs, how do you use two switchs with one battery?
If you have pictures of this set-up I would like to see them.
Thanks
Michael in Montreal



The packs I sell have two power output leads each with a Deans connector. Plug each switch into one lead.

The other way to do it is to make a Y cable with one male and two female Deans that can go to the two switches.

There is also the Smart Fly switch that has one deans input and two JR servo connectors for the output.

I have all this stuff in stock.

TF

(in reply to michael v)
       Post #: 36

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/3/2008 3:17:40 AM   
aaxiss



Posts: 156
Joined: 12/18/2006
From: Orange, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michael v

How do we test the battery to make sure that it is safe to use?
You know so my airplane it doesn't fall out if the sky.

Thanks by the way I must have skiped that thread#28
Later
Michael


I use a Duralite load tester, there may be other models out there but I haven't bothered to look for any others as I don't need one

http://duralitebatteries.com/flight/accessories3.php

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Don
If there is a 40% plane out there drawing 42 amps it's because it has an on-board welder.

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       Post #: 37

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/3/2008 4:11:50 AM   
nonstoprc



Posts: 1026
Joined: 9/9/2003
From: austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The balance wire (+3.2) should not go to the siginal lead for 72mhz receivers. Nor it should go to the siginal lead of a ZDZ ignition module.


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       Post #: 38

RE: Batteries for 50cc aircraft - 1/3/2008 4:47:16 AM   
rctom