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RE: New composite spitfire - 12/5/2007 11:12:01 AM   
bla bla


 

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Hummm, I wouldn't just start cuttung into the wing unless the producer has build in or at least thought in some structural compensation.
Not with compostits wings thats for sure.
What do they mention about flaps in the instructions?
If they say it's OK... then you have them to blame when your wing un-peels in flight.
What fun.

_____________________________

BR blabla

(in reply to nmacwarbirds)
       Post #: 26

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/5/2007 12:34:22 PM   
sandseeker



Posts: 102
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Derby, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I contacted Eric R with regard the structure and flaps, he said it it will be ok to fit scale flaps but recomended no flaps for sport flying to save wt.

chris

(in reply to bla bla)
       Post #: 27

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/5/2007 8:52:20 PM   
grenader


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: Trondheim, NORWAY
Status: offline 		I'm not too worried about the weight as im planning to install a Saito FG36 in the nose. I think that should be able to compensate for some ekstra weight.

(in reply to sandseeker)
       Post #: 28

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/6/2007 2:48:02 AM   
transatlanticflight


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/26/2006
From: , MA, USA
Status: offline 		Grenader,

I just took delivery of a new fg36...it's a beauty. (Still wish it was multi cylinder and water cooled but it should be a great sounding, performing engine if adequate cooling can be arranged. Been trying to figure out what size Spitfire to put it in. I have cut apart a 1/6 kmp/yt spit to move the firewall back and make room for a gasser. I also own a yellow aircraft kit (I think 1/5 scale)...and now I see this beautiful 1/5.5 composite that I will probably have to purchase.

I have a number of questions regarding the fg36 that I pose to all...

1. Has anyone thought about putting a solo-prop or other 4-5 blader on an fg36 and how close to scale size prop and pitch could the engine handle.
2. What size (scale) spitfire should the engine be able to handle - 1/6, 1/5.5, 1/5...
3. The carb is designed for updraft when mounted right side up...any thoughts on how the engine will work inverted with down draft carb?
4. What does anybody think about mounting the fg36 right side up with a reduction drive (gear or belt driven) to shift the center of the prop shaft to the correct height and allow me to use the scale carb intake to feed fresh air to the carb. If so, what ratio and how would that affect prop selection?
5. Finally, any good source for functional scale exhausts for fishtail exhausts in the above scales? I know about keleo and j'tec...any others worth looking at?

Thanks

Rick

(in reply to grenader)
       Post #: 29

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/6/2007 11:11:13 PM   
grenader


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: Trondheim, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Transatlanticflight.

That Saito is a thing of beauty. Just came home from a club meeting and one of the guys brought his. We are going to test it and compare it with the RCS VT 50. Both engines are supposedly able to handle at least 20" propellers so we will try to find out their limits. . We are both building Yellow Aircraft spits. He is using his FG36 I'm going for the VT50.

1 A Solo would be interesting to try because you could find the best pitch setting by just adjusting between runs. As an FG36 supposedly could handle up to 20"X9 props an 18" multiblade might work.
2 As to size 1:5 for shure, but i think that 1:5.5 composite Spit shuld be ideal. You just need to move the firewall about 1" back to fit the engines length.
3 Upside down is not a problem its a pump carb so it does not react to be inverted and with the inntake trumpet it will not make a mess by sputtering fuel. I'm just wondering about the lack of choke and how that will work.
4 well these guys http://www.warbirdpropdrives.com fit a 26" four blade on an DA50 using 2,6:1 gear ratio.
5 For the Yellow Aircraft a friend of mine is getting the exhausts made of stainless steel in a car tuning workshop.

Greetings from Santa land

Ola

(in reply to transatlanticflight)
       Post #: 30

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/9/2007 1:26:01 AM   
transatlanticflight


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/26/2006
From: , MA, USA
Status: offline 		Sandseeker,

If you think we should take this topic elsewhere let us know...don't mean to high-jack.

Grenader,

I was thinking the fg36 might be a little under-powered for the yellow spit...I've seen them with g45's +. I don't think the solo-prop folks make a five blade, so four blade marks and 3 blade marks are all they could support. But I agree they seem like the best option so long as they balance well from the factory. I would not want to have to balance a prop.

I thought the Yellow Spit was a later mark. Do you recall which profile it has?

Thanks for the word on the pump carb...I just read the manual, good to know.

I've looked at the warbirdpropdrive several times before...the website seems full of promises and setbacks...seems the whole thing is on hold. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway the design looks to me like it would be terribly unstable and full of vibration. No way those long arms, bolted to the firewall, could handle the lateral forces of a belt drive swinging a monster prop. Great idea...poor execution. The FG36, being rail mounted would accomodate a more rigid design...one that could be an integral part of the actual engine mount. That is the way I'm engineering it. Producing a reduction drive for the FG will be the precurser to my true goal of engineering a small single or twin cylinder, watercooled (assisted), merlin/griffin/allison style engine, designed for gas, with integral scale exhuast, reduction drive
(with different gear ratio options). The engine would be offered with various exhaust and radiator options to fit 1/6, 1/5.5, 1/5 scale warbirds like the Spitfire, Mustang, p40, FW190, Me-109, etc. What are your thoughts? Kind of the holy grail of scale engines...maybe. I just don't really understand why it hasn't been done... There's been a lot of money and time wasted trying to gerry-rig the same all over RCU threads. $1200-$1500 seems affordable to me. With a belt driven prop drive and a solid engine block the engine would probably be more resistant to prop strikes from nose-overs and crashes in general. Bend the prop shaft? Buy a new drive shaft unit for $100 and bolt it on! That's the concept anyway...wish me luck.

Rick

Put a good word in to Santa for me.

(in reply to grenader)
       Post #: 31

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/9/2007 6:41:02 AM   
sandseeker



Posts: 102
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Derby, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Rick, no problem; power plant for this size a/c is an important issue, operating the systems on model a/c is all part of the fun.
Check out what the boat boys are up to http://206.206.85.209/xtdoc/catalogue.aspx?ProductType=48engines&store=mhzusa

chris

(in reply to transatlanticflight)
       Post #: 32

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/9/2007 2:33:59 PM   
grenader


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: Trondheim, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Grenader

The Yellow spit is a MK XIV so it’s a griffon spit with the longer cowling. But it has the same fault all kits and all ARF's has except this composite MKIX has. They all lack a proper Gull section.

A geared engine would fit into most warbird cowlings as it could be mounted upright and with a cooling system that could reduce the need of unsightly openings in the cowling. I would certainly be very interested in such a proposition.

And to top it of being able to use a multiblade scale size propeller for flying yess .

Using a four stroke engine with gear in the Aviation design MKIX would make this an almost perfect match. Big four blade prop easy solvable exhaust. The only problem is as always cooling.
I had a KMP spit with RCV90 four stoke witch fit inside the cowling and when flying in 30 degrees centigrade the nylon engine mounts melted

And there is one thing to think of a Merlin was designed to run at about 100 degrees centigrade and the radiators and oil coolers were designed with that in mind.
What temperature can our model engines live with?

Santa is packing as we speak

< Message edited by grenader -- 12/9/2007 2:35:28 PM >

(in reply to sandseeker)
       Post #: 33

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/11/2007 1:41:21 AM   
transatlanticflight


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/26/2006
From: , MA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Sandseeker...

Grenader,

I'm still in the design phase, but will post cad drawings as they come. Hope to have a prototype by Spring...depends on work. I really can't believe that no such engine has been produced. People in the hobby (Including Charles at Yellow aircraft) say that developing parts specific to a given model is a bad idea. Still, when it comes to the scale market...solving cooling and exhaust problems without cowl cutting is a time-consuming and therefore expensive proposition. Plus, everyone on RCU seems to desire scale working props but unsure how to get successful performance with them. Seems obvious that development of an engine that can be cowled and fits the profile of these three prolific engines would be a slam dunk. There are lots of radials out there for the planes designed for them. Time for a "v-12 watercooled" ...ok maybe a v-twin/quad or inline-twin with a v-12 exhaust. Can't wait to get started.

Not surprised about your rcv experience. That design produces a lot of friction and the cooling fins set perpendicular to air flow...not good. But nylon engine mounts? Do you usually use nylon vs aluminum?

Rick

(in reply to grenader)
       Post #: 34

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/11/2007 5:02:01 PM   
grenader


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: Trondheim, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Transatlanticflight

Looking forward to seeing the prototype.

Well what can I say they came with the kit

(in reply to transatlanticflight)
       Post #: 35

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/14/2007 10:12:56 AM   
Tom Verstappen



Posts: 194
Joined: 11/23/2002
From: MolAntwerp, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		Interesting, what is all included in the kit?


_____________________________

Tom Verstappen

(in reply to grenader)
       Post #: 36

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/14/2007 1:05:50 PM   
sandseeker



Posts: 102
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Derby, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Tom, you get the complete airframe with joining tubes and clear canopy; and you have the option to purchace....fittings (tank,horns,clevis and screws) Spinner(jp 4 1/2in ally) Detail kit (vac form cockpit sides and resin inst pannel)
Nice kit. I think I will put it together and fly in the silver paint before adding details and maybe scale flaps etc.

chris

(in reply to Tom Verstappen)
       Post #: 37

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/15/2007 4:39:10 AM   
skywarp1



Posts: 29
Joined: 9/19/2007
From: Smallville, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Sweet kit! Looks well made.

< Message edited by skywarp1 -- 12/15/2007 4:51:14 AM >

_____________________________

Humans employ far better designs on their vehicles than on themselves.

(in reply to sandseeker)
       Post #: 38

RE: New composite spitfire - 12/15/2007 5:31:45 PM   
flypilot



Posts: 44
Joined: 7/16/2004
From: Akershus, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Does anyone here know if it is plausable to enter an F4c contest with this plane or will it not be alowed as it is an "ARF". What you think?

(in reply to skywarp1)