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HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 7:07:05 AM   
dzbum



Posts: 92
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Barnstead, NH, USA
Status: offline 		Hi,
here is yet another Newbie’s question about a good first helicopter. I am a dedicated fixed wing pilot who had no interest in helicopters until I happened to try one in my simulator. (Man is it harder than it looks!!! ) My wife was recently telling me that if I did not come up with a good idea for a Christmas present I was going to be getting clothes! (Both my ten year old and I agree that we cannot let that happen to either of us) So I started to look at electric helicopters. (I already have experience with electric fixed wing models) After reading a lot of posts and looking at a lot of ads I have come to the conclusion that Esky seems to be a reasonable way to go. I am looking at the pros and cons of the Honey Bee King 2 and the Honey Bee CP 2. I think both seem good, but I am looking for a little advice on the difference. The King 2 is a little bigger (does that = more stable?) The CP2 has a separate tail motor, I have seen many questions posted about issues with the K 2 belt slipping, does this make the CP2 more reliable in that regard. I like the separate electronics on the king that people report is more reliable than the CP2 “all on one board” approach. As the cost difference in the two is only minor I am tending towards the King 2. Is there anything I am missing here? (Other than blades seem to be cheaper for the king 2 also).

This may be a short lived play with helicopters, but it I don't want to buy something that I will grow out quickly. Given I live in the cold North East having something I can practice with indoors during the cold winter month’s sounds appealing. (My dog may disagree )

All advice greatly accepted.
       Post #: 1

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 8:58:11 AM   
shizack


 

Posts: 262
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Augusta30909, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dzbum

Hi,
here is yet another Newbie’s question about a good first helicopter. I am a dedicated fixed wing pilot who had no interest in helicopters until I happened to try one in my simulator. (Man is it harder than it looks!!! ) My wife was recently telling me that if I did not come up with a good idea for a Christmas present I was going to be getting clothes! (Both my ten year old and I agree that we cannot let that happen to either of us) So I started to look at electric helicopters. (I already have experience with electric fixed wing models) After reading a lot of posts and looking at a lot of ads I have come to the conclusion that Esky seems to be a reasonable way to go. I am looking at the pros and cons of the Honey Bee King 2 and the Honey Bee CP 2. I think both seem good, but I am looking for a little advice on the difference. The King 2 is a little bigger (does that = more stable?) The CP2 has a separate tail motor, I have seen many questions posted about issues with the K 2 belt slipping, does this make the CP2 more reliable in that regard. I like the separate electronics on the king that people report is more reliable than the CP2 “all on one board” approach. As the cost difference in the two is only minor I am tending towards the King 2. Is there anything I am missing here? (Other than blades seem to be cheaper for the king 2 also).

This may be a short lived play with helicopters, but it I don't want to buy something that I will grow out quickly. Given I live in the cold North East having something I can practice with indoors during the cold winter month’s sounds appealing. (My dog may disagree )

All advice greatly accepted.



The King beats the CP2 hands down, from any angle you approach it. Had a CP2. Nightmare. Have a King. Blue dream. However...
Unless you live in a mansion, you're not going to do much King-ing indoors. It needs a good bit of room to move around, and small stick movements translate into larger-than-expected heli movements. Even with quirks, a belt-tail beats a tail motor every time.

A CP heli is, arguably, not a good choice for a first heli. It can be done, and since you have some plank experience, you're probably familiar with intensive setup and tweaking, and you realize that RTF does NOT mean ready to fly out of the box. A CP heli is going to require pitch setup, blade balancing, checking lots of push-rod paths for binding... You'll also need a pitch gauge. Eyeballing for pitch setting is not very effective. IMO, a much better choice for a heli noob would be a fixed-pitch heli, yes, with all-in-one control box and tail motor. They are MUCH easier to set up, FAR less intimidating when you spin up for lift-off, and survive crashes (you WILL crash) much better and cheaper. Indoor hovering is also much more doable, and it translates well into outdoor flying in no - low wind. Flying a FP will teach you the stick movements and heli behavior you need to be accustomed to for a CP.

You could go the coax route, as they are very easy to set up and hover. You'll probably be hovering a coax around the room on your second or third battery charge, but you'd probably get bored of that quickly.

My suggestion, and many would disagree, would be to start with a Honey Bee FP or Falcon 40 FP. Once you can hover that in all orientations, and manage a few figure-8s and circuits in the yard, then get a CP heli. Don't worry about "outgrowing" a FP. They'll always be there as a nice relaxing yard bird as a calm alternative to the raw adrenaline rush of a 2300+ rpm CP.

Jumping into a CP as a first heli is like jumping into a Harley-Davidson before you know how to ride a bike. A coax is like a tricycle - I'm sure you're beyond that. But they are great for indoors.

(in reply to dzbum)
       Post #: 2

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 9:29:36 AM   
blade_killer


 

Posts: 602
Joined: 3/17/2007
From: Lancaster, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I completely agree, if you thought it was hard in the sim, you aint seen nothin yet. Dont get a CP as your very first bird, your plane experience will help you with orientation but thats about it, a heli is a whole new ball of wax. I agree with the above post, get a FP (I would suggest a Honey Bee) and learn to fly it well, once you've mastered a HBFP you'll slide into a CP a lot easier. The FPs will take a crash that would destroy a CP, they are tough and if you do break something in a crash (and you WILL crash many times) the HBFP usually doesnt need any repairs, you just straiten the blades and go again, but if you do break something it's cheap and easy to fix. You'll get more air time because you'll be repairing less. When you crash a CP you'll need to order parts, wait for them to arrive, and replace them, then you'll need to re-balance, re pitch, and tweek it to death to get it ready to crash, er, I mean fly again, less air time.

get the FP, you'll be thankful you did.

_____________________________

Scott

(in reply to shizack)
       Post #: 3

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 3:15:22 PM   
dzbum



Posts: 92
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Barnstead, NH, USA
Status: offline 		Great info guys, I had looked at the Honey bee FP and then talked myself out of it after reading other posts suggesting going straight to a CP. I think the Coax units are a little off the mark for what I want, but I think I will go the FP route. The Honey bee FP is pretty cheap so I am not too worried about out it becoming redundant to quickly as am sure it will take me a while to learn to hover properly. What should I get with a HB FP in the way of spares and or upgrades from the get go. I assume a spare battery and a spare set of blades and training skids are a must, is there anything else I should consider. (Tail boom, fly bar, motor heat sink, fast charger etc) I notice that Hobby-Lobby is now offering a LiPo version of the Honey Bee http://www.hobby-lobby.com/honeybee3.htm which with 2 x LiPo’s seems like a good deal. Anything else I should know before I buy?

(in reply to blade_killer)
       Post #: 4

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 4:45:56 PM   
Druss


 

Posts: 4686
Joined: 8/10/2007
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Actually, there are quite a few ppl out there that suggest you should go directly to a .50 size nitro or larger as larger=more stable. I'm not personally one of them but you also don't need to get a fp either. I went from a co-axial directly to a cp with some sim time and was hovering my second flight.

If you've already got a sim, put 20 solid hours on it and do radd's school of flight you would be alright with a cp as your first heli.

(in reply to dzbum)
       Post #: 5

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 5:28:04 PM   
dzbum



Posts: 92
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Barnstead, NH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. Radd's school of flight looks useful, I just took a quick look. I understand the mechanical and physical differences between and FP and CP, but if you are mixing throttle with CP is it much harder to learn with a CP than a FP? I understand that set up and tuning may be greatly complicated with a CP and that is not necessarily ideal when you are learning, but are there more pro's and con's that I don't know?

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 6

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/26/2007 8:07:17 PM   
Druss


 

Posts: 4686
Joined: 8/10/2007
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		the pro's are that you'll have a 3d ready heli when you've progressed to that point, the cons are that the linkages are more complicated and there are a more small parts so if you crash you can have more damage on the cp.

I only crashed the once while I was first learning to hover, I'm crashing more often now but that's because I'm learning forward flight and simple aerobatics (some of which aren't possible on a fp). Overall i'm happy I skipped the fp stage but everyone is different.

keep in mind that the only reason i learned to hover as quickly as i did was because i spent 20 hours on the sim before I tried.

(in reply to dzbum)
       Post #: 7

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/27/2007 2:36:18 AM   
liquid 1


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 11/27/2007
From: mooresville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		hey guys I;m new here, i just ordered my first heli besides a cheapo syma dragonfly ..my wife just ordered me the E-SKY honey bee king II 2 with the training gear and flight simulator, I cant wait to start with the sim and get some time in, I have been reading reviews and the king II has been getting great reviews, I been wanting a heli for 5 years now and finally decided to get one, I have been driving the nitro RC monster trucks for several years, so I am looking forward to the challenge, thanks guys for all the info...james

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 8

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/27/2007 3:20:16 AM   
Druss


 

Posts: 4686
Joined: 8/10/2007
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		hey man, welcome to the club. hope you have fun with your heli and also hope you got lots of spare parts with your purchase. that's one bad thing about the esky products is that there is almost no local support from the hobby shops and then you're waiting for parts when you order online.

(in reply to liquid 1)
       Post #: 9

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/27/2007 4:21:47 AM   
dzbum



Posts: 92
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Barnstead, NH, USA
Status: offline 		Any advice about what spares that should be purchased with a new King 2? The things that everyone breaks when learning to hover.

< Message edited by dzbum -- 11/28/2007 2:59:08 AM >

(in reply to Druss)
       Post #: 10

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/28/2007 7:33:49 AM   
liquid 1


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 11/27/2007
From: mooresville, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info... I hope I dont crash to bad, my wife told me today I cant get it till christmas, she's killing me..lol

(in reply to dzbum)
       Post #: 11

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/30/2007 9:51:36 PM   
dzbum



Posts: 92
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Barnstead, NH, USA
Status: offline 		Well after 4 more Sim hours I find I can hover tail in keeping in a 3 foot square. I went through all the Radd flight school lessons and it seems good. I am going to go with the HBK2, I have a set of main blades and tail rotor blades, a spare battery and training wheels on my spares list to ship with my Heli. Anything else I should be ordering at the same time ?

Thanks

(in reply to liquid 1)
       Post #: 12

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 11/30/2007 10:19:15 PM   
Druss


 

Posts: 4686
Joined: 8/10/2007
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		get extra main and feathering (spindle) shafts, flybar and paddles, main gear.

make sure you get at least 2-3 sets of main blades or look at the new fiber reinforced plastic ones that xtreme productions just put out.

I also strongly suggest you get the brushless motor/esc upgrade (there are 3 kinds, 3100kv, 3800kv and 3900kv, the 3800kv will need slight modification to the frame to fit but the other two will just drop in), the stock motor really isn't that great and will probably fail within the first 20 flights or so. it's really too bad that they put such a bad motor on an otherwise great machine.

(in reply to dzbum)
       Post #: 13

RE: HB CP2 V HB K2 - 12/1/2007 6:41:58 AM