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Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 11:17:02 AM   
b.bullfrog


 

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From: jacksonville, FL, USA
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Is it about time after the last discussion about forming two seperate tank leagues. One for the Tamiya types (IR) and the other for BB style.
I would like to take the lead for the Tamiya types and will have an announcement on Dec 9th.Since I really don't anything about the BB style I'll leave that to the ones that have them.I would like to keep it simple on the rules.
I'll come up with some basic proposals for the IR style tanks. This will include scratch built and conversions.
       Post #: 1

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 12:19:46 PM   
g.horn


 

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From: henderson, KY, USA
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I would guess your refering to some sort of national club. Like the AMA for model airplanes? With a news letter and the whole nine yards? I've been reading e-mails from the mess at Danville through the armor nuts, are you trying to avoid this kind of problem? Let me know if I can help and good luck.


Greg

(in reply to b.bullfrog)
       Post #: 2

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 12:30:10 PM   
WhiteWolf McBride


 

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Danville, oy-vey...

With any luck, Karen will lower the boom as she did with the " Illegal Radio Frequency " issue that many laughed at and ignored. As the Extravaganza its an AAF event, I would say Karen has the final say, and if making it an " open/unlimited " event brings in more people, and 'funnies that the spectators will goggle at (like Willy's masterpieces) I think it would be to the benefit of both the museum and the clubs, as there is more to be seen, and draw interest to the hobby.

That rules bickering is part of the reason I got out of competitive racing. The other reasons were cost, and demands of my job at the time.

Go Karen!

'Nuff Said.


_____________________________

WhiteWolf McBride - http://www.freewebs.com/whitewolf_mcbride/
2x Tamiya Leo 1A4, 1x M4A3, 1x M26, 1x T34/85, & LAV''s.

(in reply to g.horn)
       Post #: 3

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 4:13:50 PM   
blitzkrieg65



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As long as we are thinking future and the advancements in technology on the IR battle field! other vehicles with adjustible hit levels, hidden automatic weapons that can fire upon a sensor being triggered by movement! Possible small trop movement within a couple of years on the battel field along with tanks, maybe even Helicopters with IR get to fly by at some point in the Battle! I quess what I am getting at is that as long as the systems are compatible lets don't regulate out more strategy and realism!

The Blitz

A.T.A.C. Amored Tank Association of California

1st Brigrade, San Diego

(in reply to WhiteWolf McBride)
       Post #: 4

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 5:20:11 PM   
b.bullfrog


 

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I've talked with Karen at the very beginning of this current riff with the apples.What I suggesting is a national group more into the fun aspect even in competition.Talking with the two that run the field in the muesum does not get anywhere with me or others.
The formation of two seperate operations one IR and one BB(If they want to break away and do there own thing that's fine also).But there is no national group of either types.Any of you can e-mail me and we can go from there. However I do want to talk everything over with my fellow tankers here on Dec.9th and get their take on this idea.
I am serious about forming these groups but I want to talk face to face with my fellow tankers first.The Guys that built the Danville site have the wrong mentality for me and I don't think I would ever be welcome at their battlefield.Espically after what they have posted.
WFraden1@aol.com

(in reply to blitzkrieg65)
       Post #: 5

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 5:38:57 PM   
pattoncommander



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I think that the strange and in some cases, totally unrealistic rules are a primary factor in chasing away many from RC tank combat. Things such as a tank can't be hit when the IR sensor is not in allignment, so that in spite of being in the direct line of fire of an enemy tank, you can't be hit because of the angle of the sensor ...or it takes 5 or 7 hits to knock out a particilar tank, is totally unrealistic in tank vs tank warfare. Not many Sherman crews have lived to see 6 additional Tiger hits on the tank and many KTs have been taken out by 1 or 2 hits in vital locations.

I personally would like to see some sort of hit registration plate or panel with a sensor that detects a hit to be mounted on the tank involved in the battle, and use low velocity pellets/BBs. It could easilly be wired up to kick off a smoker on the hit tank. For the majority of low budget tankers, this would provide a nice combat with positive results and minimal rules and much less financial outlay on the IR systems. I stress low velocity as some have been upgraded to the point that a BB will penetrate the tank...not at all cool in a "freindly" game of tank combat, destroying or seriously damaging a buddy's tank, say nothing about the liability of the high MV BB going off somewhere to hit some ONE.

Although a seemingly problematic idea regarding frequencies, the idea of 2 mini cams...driver and tc/gunner and using mini portable monitors would be VERY realistic and pose problems not encountered in the current IR battles...in that you can't look over the hill (not possible by a tank on the ground) to see where the enemy is sitting and subsequently back up and go in behind him. I have run my 1/6 Stuart like this and it's like being in a real tank. It's diffcult with a single camera, as you have either the driver's view and can't see where the turret is shooting or if it's in the turret, once you have traversed, the relation to ground direction and tank movement is compromised. Maybe this would be in a totally diffferent field, but the realism is awesome...only need the noise, dust and smell of cordite.

Just my input based on 1;1 tank operation, but may give the planners something to consider.

(in reply to blitzkrieg65)
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RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 5:57:01 PM   
Leo2A6 Owner



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they do make those powder BB commander. they go poof when they hit their target and leave a nice dust mark. That would work well for your idea of tanks getting hit. If a KT is hit on the front glacis there would be no damage. but if it hit th track or running gear you effectively turn that tank into a pillbox. Hit the battel or mantlet and you take out the gun. It would make the overall combat more realistic in the fact that you can accurately account for hits and possible damages to the vehicle. It would also add another dimension to the battles. If a persons track is taken out they could still fight just not move. Unless they want to spin in circles.

(in reply to pattoncommander)
       Post #: 7

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 6:05:23 PM   
Panther F



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Yeah, that part of the IR battling cannot be overcome. If a Sherman got knocked out with one shot, then there would only be Tigers and King Tigers on the battlefield. Even missed shots, armor deflection ... these are things that just cannot be 'factored' in.

I think the biggest attraction would be to have a large facility that is not as narrow minded as one is right now and have actual battles aimed at just having fun. Keeping score and all that is fine if there is to be a tournament, but I think most tankers would like to play and go home knowing that they didn't get short handed or had to argue their point. The thing going on over at armornuts will never be resolved because of a few local guys who want to keep it in their best interest.

I'm listening and interested!!


Jeff

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HL StuG III, Tamiya: M4 Sherman, M4A1E8 Sherman, Sturmtiger, T-34/85 and an M26A1 Pershing

(in reply to pattoncommander)
       Post #: 8

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 6:11:42 PM   
b.bullfrog


 

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I am primilary a IR tanker and the hits that it takes to knock out a tank is what I will use (As suggested from Tamiya). Wether that part is unrealsitic it's the way the system is setup. What the BB guys do is up to ya'll. I do agree that making the gun more powerful and destroying the other tanks is not to promising. But that's up to the BB guys.

(in reply to Leo2A6 Owner)
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RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 6:20:56 PM   
shenlonco



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From: prospect park, NJ, USA
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Why just use stock air guns with 6mm paintballs as seen here in my post in ther FAQ section and they will be perfect for BB battles ...
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5760954/mpage_2/tm.htm
no one here who likes tanks other than me so no battles for me here

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Thanks
Shenlonco

(in reply to b.bullfrog)
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RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 7:21:59 PM   
blitzkrieg65



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Technology is Increasing tremendously open your minds IR battling can be very realistic! You can already set the tanks to take differant hits counts and damage levels per the size of the tank! Also and with all do respect to the Pattoncommander I know that it is already possible to build the circuitry to put in a random program where sometimes you get blown out the first hit! That is all I am saying keep an open mind, we have some highly technical people getting involved inthis hobby it is going to grow!
One quick Example the El mod guys are working on a program where if you get hit in the turret it not longer moves, if you get hit on the right side it takes out the right tracks ect...Look I like the fact of shooting real rounds but that isn't perfectly realistic either, for example it will be possible with electronics to have a shoulder mounted guy with a LAW rocket to have him have to shoot two IR hits on a tank twice, to be registered as one hit, that would be more difficult to score with pellets!

Repectfully Submitted

The Blitz

(in reply to shenlonco)
       Post #: 11

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 7:33:36 PM   
heavyaslead



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From: Loganville, GA, USA
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I will gladly help out with some guidelines and would like to participate/support a national event.

Basic tenants: If it runs, can be hit with performance degregation/effects and eventually KO'd then it can play.


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Cheers
Eric Scott

(in reply to blitzkrieg65)
       Post #: 12

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 10:21:41 PM   
StoneColdFreak



Posts: 253
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Enterprise, AL, USA
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As far as Tamiya IR combat goes, I believe that the only rules should be:

1) The DMD/MFU/Battle Unit should not be altered in any way for advantage.
2) The MFU must be set-up based on the actual tank's armor; Light, Medium or Heavy.

That's it. These are not 100% "accurate" WWII battles no matter what rules people want to impose, so regulating "scale speed" for people who use better motors etc. should not even be considered. We don't need battle police to make sure everyone is exactly the same. Divide into teams, fire up the engines (motors ) and open fire on your opponents!!!

I much prefer to just get together to share ideas, for camaraderie and to play with our tanks.

K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)


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A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

(in reply to b.bullfrog)
       Post #: 13

RE: Formation of two tank leagues - 11/26/2007 11:09:17 PM   
Panther F