How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r the manufacturere,s of CF ?  
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How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r the ma... - 11/27/2007 9:56:02 AM   
wings_of_fire


 

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From: Pune, , INDIA
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does anyone know how much does 1Kg of carbon fibre cost in the US & of wht garde ? wht r the CF forms available (eg:- weaved matts, threads, powder form etc.. etc)?
Who r the manufacturer,s ? any links?
Does it need any special process to mould or it is the same as fibre glassing ?

Thnx!


< Message edited by I_LOVE_RC -- 11/27/2007 3:45:35 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/23/2007 8:17:10 PM   
alanc


 

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i machine carbon fibre parts for formula 1 race cars, i am told there are many differant grades, and weaves, and that the stuff is baked, doesnt sound the same as glass to me, but, i only machine it, not make it


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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/24/2007 11:26:02 PM   
wings_of_fire


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: alanc

i machine carbon fibre parts for formula 1 race cars, i am told there are many differant grades, and weaves, and that the stuff is baked, doesnt sound the same as glass to me, but, i only machine it, not make it


wow!...I din`t know that carbon fibre could be machined. I have herd that some companies have started building engine blocks out of carbon fibre! here`s a pic for a carbon fibre engine. I want to know if the autoclave (baking) process is mandatory while processing carbon fibre in the desired shape. Is it possible to design it in a desired shape without baking it ?

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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/24/2007 11:38:16 PM   
alanc


 

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The stuff i do is wound on a mandrel from sheet, in multiple layers, each layer being a differant density, and grain direction to the last, the tube is sometimes tapered, sometimes the shape is very much like a flashlight, i bore and trun the things for steering columns for Mclaren, and one or two others, i use the hardest of carbide, one tip edge does 1 job, on the next bore, i rough it out, and change for finish cuts, on a 5 of, i will go through about 120 dollars worth of tips, another job i do is for a bearing cage, for satelites, this stuff is WAY harder, and gives me PLENTY of grief, i am not alowed to use abrasive, to remove burred edges, to make 4 simple rings, it takes nearly 9 hours!!! then the miller has to drill the holes through with a diamond cutter--thing is, we are cutting diamond with diamond--losing battle, we win, but at a hefty cost in tooling, lot of my stuff is floating around in space now, lot of it is flaoting around various race tracks, as well

next time the guy brings me some of this grief, i will ask him how they make the stuff,


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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r t... - 12/25/2007 2:20:05 AM   
DMcQuinn



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Carbon Fiber cloth can be used the same as fiberglass cloth. You can use an epoxy resin to saturate the CF cloth. Then form it into or onto some pre-waxed mold. It will cure in 6 hours or so ar room temperature (cure time depends upon the epoxy). No heat / no autoclave is required. It is really no harder than fiberglass. Once cured the part can be cut with saws, drilled with drills, etc. I have some example CF parts on my web page:
http://webpages.charter.net/mcquinn/Dave/RC/Projects/projects.htm
I have made CF spinner, prop and landing gear.

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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r t... - 12/25/2007 2:21:44 PM   
wings_of_fire


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMcQuinn

Carbon Fiber cloth can be used the same as fiberglass cloth. You can use an epoxy resin to saturate the CF cloth. Then form it into or onto some pre-waxed mold. It will cure in 6 hours or so ar room temperature (cure time depends upon the epoxy). No heat / no autoclave is required. It is really no harder than fiberglass. Once cured the part can be cut with saws, drilled with drills, etc. I have some example CF parts on my web page:
http://webpages.charter.net/mcquinn/Dave/RC/Projects/projects.htm
I have made CF spinner, prop and landing gear.


wow !..good work done. I love the carbon fibre props u made ...its kool. I have posted some pics of the carbon fibre Big Airwolf manufatcured by Vario. I was wondering if Vario used autoclave process to shape the carbon fibre fuselage of the Airwolf. It weighs around 1350 grams & is a large scale fuselage. what do u think?

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< Message edited by wings_of_fire -- 12/25/2007 2:23:54 PM >

(in reply to DMcQuinn)
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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/25/2007 2:30:39 PM   
wings_of_fire


 

Posts: 103
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From: Pune, , INDIA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alanc

The stuff i do is wound on a mandrel from sheet, in multiple layers, each layer being a differant density, and grain direction to the last, the tube is sometimes tapered, sometimes the shape is very much like a flashlight, i bore and trun the things for steering columns for Mclaren, and one or two others, i use the hardest of carbide, one tip edge does 1 job, on the next bore, i rough it out, and change for finish cuts, on a 5 of, i will go through about 120 dollars worth of tips, another job i do is for a bearing cage, for satelites, this stuff is WAY harder, and gives me PLENTY of grief, i am not alowed to use abrasive, to remove burred edges, to make 4 simple rings, it takes nearly 9 hours!!! then the miller has to drill the holes through with a diamond cutter--thing is, we are cutting diamond with diamond--losing battle, we win, but at a hefty cost in tooling, lot of my stuff is floating around in space now, lot of it is flaoting around various race tracks, as well

next time the guy brings me some of this grief, i will ask him how they make the stuff,


hmm the machining is pretty expensive.. how does the carbon fibre fall of the pieace during machining ?. is it in chip form or in layer form ? if possible can u show me some pics of the machining process done on CF . pm me . thank you!

(in reply to alanc)
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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/25/2007 11:59:54 PM   
alanc


 

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It comes off as a powder, and the poster above is right, it can be drilled and sawn, just not for long, carbide is needed, or diamond for pure carbon fibre, i am no expert in the composition of the stuff, only the machining, but, if used in some model applications, if pure carbon is used, say in an undercart, then it will shatter on a hard landing, there must be other additives

sorry, cannot show the machining proccess, dont think the bosses would like it!! its not hard, just time consuming, and the cost of the parts means take your time, i just finished a simple bracket for a satellite it looked like a pawn off a chess board, it had a 2mm cored hole, weave was wound on a 2mm mandrell, the parts where 12mm diam, 40mm long, 10 off, no spares for setting, material coast was in excess of £700, not all carbon is the same, believe me!! scary thing was, the end was threaded internal for a helicoil, (carbon cannot be usably tapped out) our guy fitted the wrong helicolis, and had to take them out, trouble is, he pulled the thread out as well!! we got clearance to open up to a bigger diameter, just as well, eh!!

one thing, the dust is not cancer making, but it is unpleasant, i wear a good mask, and have very little skin exposed , dont underestimate this stuff


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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/26/2007 1:59:38 PM   
TeamSeacats



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The dust will cause "black lung" as your body cannot rid itself of the dust in soft tissue. Take precautions.

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(in reply to alanc)
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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/27/2007 4:15:52 PM   
wings_of_fire


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeamSeacats

The dust will cause "black lung" as your body cannot rid itself of the dust in soft tissue. Take precautions.


OMG! .....thts something to take care off ...seriously. Thanks for letting me know that. R u related to carbon fibre in any way ?

(in reply to TeamSeacats)
       Post #: 10

RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/27/2007 4:21:21 PM   
wings_of_fire


 

Posts: 103
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alanc

It comes off as a powder, and the poster above is right, it can be drilled and sawn, just not for long, carbide is needed, or diamond for pure carbon fibre, i am no expert in the composition of the stuff, only the machining, but, if used in some model applications, if pure carbon is used, say in an undercart, then it will shatter on a hard landing, there must be other additives

sorry, cannot show the machining proccess, dont think the bosses would like it!! its not hard, just time consuming, and the cost of the parts means take your time, i just finished a simple bracket for a satellite it looked like a pawn off a chess board, it had a 2mm cored hole, weave was wound on a 2mm mandrell, the parts where 12mm diam, 40mm long, 10 off, no spares for setting, material coast was in excess of £700, not all carbon is the same, believe me!! scary thing was, the end was threaded internal for a helicoil, (carbon cannot be usably tapped out) our guy fitted the wrong helicolis, and had to take them out, trouble is, he pulled the thread out as well!! we got clearance to open up to a bigger diameter, just as well, eh!!

one thing, the dust is not cancer making, but it is unpleasant, i wear a good mask, and have very little skin exposed , dont underestimate this stuff


I guess u guys must be using conventional machines instead of CNC just becoz of the CF properties. What if some pieace is machined wrong.. can it hit ur pocket ? I was wondering machining something so expensive & something goes wrong...

(in reply to alanc)
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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r th... - 12/27/2007 4:54:37 PM   
DCX


 

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You think fiberglass is inchy.....nothing compares to getting a little dust on your arm or wrist. I also machine the stuff. Mainly short run bicycle racing steering tubes and suspension systems. I have had much luck with pinning the stuff with a small screw to lugs. Currently I machine diamond with diamond. Composites wern't hard enough anymore!! My background is with "pre-preg" tubes only that I have made in the US, drawn from a mandrel. I was the first to develop actuators with the material. Mono-filiment surfaces can be heald within aceptable tolerances to employ as a ram rod with other hard plastic bushings combined with kevlar wear surfaces. Cold process nitride coatings can also be applied for prevention in areas of potiential wear.

Ultrasonic testing of all machined parts is the only way I have found to test for internal fracturing-defects. This may sound silly, but plain old quality High Speed Steel cutting tools works fine and is the only thing I use, however they require slow feed and medium speed.

Some times when I am using LockTite, and cleaning out old threads (in carbon graphite) it will ignite! Some chemistry issue, talk about smelling bad.

Wrap receipe; there is much to learn about shear in the specific applacation and wrap direction of the material. I would like to see more of the Pre-pregenated (pre-preg) epoxy materials being used for RC hobbies. Rather than just layups. With only 2% resin in the final piece. Who is this guy??...fact, this kind of process is almost totally prohibitive for us kinds. Autoclaves with tons of pressure that only make the cure heat with only the applies pressure to a prepreg layup. A "dry process" if you will. The sprayed epoxy material is self bonded with no heated parts, but heat up only with the enourmous pressure applies to the mold. Greg Trimble holds the patent for "Vacuum bagging of carbon-graphite layups", Wasen't he a smart fella with that one. I supported his racing team with my suspension forks for a couple of years. But again my point is that composites have more to offer than the wet lay-up. Grain strengths of 460,000 PSI!

So I only work with the dry lay up material. Easy to work with if you follow many, many long learned skilled. On can't learn to machine with this stuff, you have to know how to read what your working with. Listening to what what others say is heart warming to say the least, I've been there!

I'm still leary of disclosing too much regarding this material. I believe that there is much to gain with tinkering, however this material has it's drawbacks. Contuined good luck to all you fabracators out there. Sorry for the long read. I'll keep my eye on this list & hopfully contribute when I can.

Happy New Year Everyone

(in reply to wings_of_fire)
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RE: How much does carbon fibre cost in the US? who r t... - 12/27/2007 6:18:59 PM   
wings_of_fire


 

Posts: 103
Joined: 11/7/2007
From: Pune, , INDIA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMcQuinn

Carbon Fiber cloth can be used the same as fiberglass cloth. You can use an epoxy resin to saturate the CF cloth. Then form it into or onto some pre-waxed mold. It will cure in 6 hours or so ar room temperature (cure time depends upon the epoxy). No heat / no autoclave is required. It is really no harder than fiberglass. Once cured the part