RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning.......  
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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning....... - 12/8/2007 12:26:00 PM   
Jezmo



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From: Spring, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Dave, we're waiting with bad, er I mean baited breath.

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 4:19:33 PM   
gkamysz


 

Posts: 1809
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From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		But what is it about castor that keeps engine together? Is it not the high viscosity(SAE 40-50) that most other oils do not approach? There are only a few synthetic oils that get that viscous. Maxima K2, and Scooter 2T, Klotz Original Techniplate, and Klotz R50. Most other modern 2 stroke oils are SAE20-30, and snow machine oils can even be SAE10. Keep in mind that engine cooling(air or water) makes huge difference in the type of oil required.

I think it all comes down to viscosity and whether or not the oil breaks down.

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 4:26:32 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 18134
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From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: online 		The castor can withstand a higher temperature without burning. The flash point is 229C

< Message edited by w8ye -- 12/8/2007 4:28:17 PM >

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 4:30:13 PM   
gkamysz


 

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Joined: 6/24/2003
From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe you can provide some flash and fire points to back up that statement? I've actually checked the specs and some of the synthetic oils I've mentioned have virtually identical specs as castor.

/edit/ I see you looked something up.

And in normal engine use this has what effect? If you are running an aluminum engine at 229°C you have serious troubles. We all hear about how castor protects a lean run. But lets not discuss that, because that is not a normal operating point. What benefits does castor have over MODERN synthetic oils of similar specification? I trust you purchase oils on specifications not the source. Flash points are not the end all, say all, of two stroke oils. For instance Maxima's Bio 2T has a flash point of 180°F. Even in a water cooled engine this is generally below the operating temperature of an engine. Surely a flash point this low would make it unsuitable for any engine? Obviously, not.

An engine cooling failure or operator error is not lubricant failure.


quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

The castor can withstand a higher temperature without burning.



< Message edited by gkamysz -- 12/8/2007 4:41:11 PM >

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 4:34:40 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 18134
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: online 		Didn't know I was getting in competition here.

Regular Havoline 10W30 motor oil is 392F or 200C

Gregg I suppose you can share with us the other flash points of the synthetics you had in mind?

I'm thinking that Downunder is the real expert on this?

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 4:41:33 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Either way, it will always come down to what the oil does near the flash point. I haven't seen anything about synthetic oils retaining any value to engine parts when this happens.

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 4:49:58 PM   
gkamysz


 

Posts: 1809
Joined: 6/24/2003
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Status: offline 		We are discussing two stroke oils. I was going to bring up crankcase oils, but they are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

http://www.klotzlube.com/tech/KL-102.pdf
http://www.klotzlube.com/tech/KL-200.pdf

http://www.maximausa.com/products/2stroke/bio2t.asp

The other thing to realize is that some of the low flash point oils are diluted with kerosene typically, giving an unusually low flash point. So then how do you decide what the viscosity and or flash point really is?

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 5:14:13 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 18134
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: online 		I see that the original Technoplate for glow use is 460F or 238C

What do they list for Benoil? - 555F

< Message edited by w8ye -- 12/8/2007 5:19:13 PM >

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 5:23:33 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 18134
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: online 		I see 50:1 synthetic is 135C 275F

There must be something besides flash point?

The viscosity is at 100F what would it be at higher temps? I know it would be less but how would they compare at 200C?

< Message edited by w8ye -- 12/8/2007 5:25:17 PM >

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 5:30:57 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 18134
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: online 		I see the film strength of Benoil is 10 and original technoplate is only 7 1/2

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 5:34:37 PM   
gkamysz


 

Posts: 1809
Joined: 6/24/2003
From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		If you couldn't find the page for Benol here it is:

http://www.klotzlube.com/tech/BC-175-1.pdf

520°F or 271°C. Now realistically, when are you going to experience that temperature in normal use?

http://www.maximausa.com/products/2stroke/castor927.asp

Notice that Dave's and my favorite Castor is at 420°F.

What does that prove, if anything?

Viscosity at any temperature can be calculated if you have specs at two given temperatures. If viscosity index is the same, then the slope of the plot will be the same.

The only question that remains is how hot do engine components actually run? And we all know that the larger gasoline engine generally run hotter than a glow engine and yet most of the oils recommended are of lower viscosity, quantity, and flash points.

It's not as simple as castor is king because it varnishes. That is my main point and I'm trying to get people to think about it rather than repeat the old adage.

Dave's story is interesting, and 40 years ago I'm sure that various oils caused problems. We are here today though. what can we say about modern lubricants?

< Message edited by gkamysz -- 12/8/2007 5:35:03 PM >

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 5:37:31 PM   
Flyer95


 

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From: STOCKHOLM Akersberga, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Most glow fuels smells nice but fuels containing castor oil running slightly rich with nitro in the mixture smells heaven

And IMO castor oil gives the superior lubrication in any glow engine simply because it is a dirty and sticking oil and when mixed with syntetics it wont leave any carbon deposites to worry about. Best of both worlds

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 7:41:37 PM   
Ken6PPC


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gkamysz

SNIP

Dave's story is interesting, and 40 years ago I'm sure that various oils caused problems. We are here today though. what can we say about modern lubricants?



Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

There is really very little that is totally new. Slight improvements are just that - SLIGHT!


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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 8:28:26 PM   
jessiej



Posts: 1809
Joined: 7/6/2003
From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gkamysz


Dave's story is interesting, and 40 years ago I'm sure that various oils caused problems. We are here today though. what can we say about modern lubricants?


That they give increased protection from lean runs and better protection from corrosion with castor added.

jess

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/8/2007 8:47:42 PM