RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning.......  
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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/17/2007 11:06:55 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		Yes it dissolves well

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(in reply to liquid_TR)
       Post #: 101

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/18/2007 7:02:29 AM   
jessiej



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From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: liquid_TR

slight off topic:

Could I mix some castor with Cool Power fuel? (will it nicely dissolve in the fuel?)

thanks!


It will mix easily. Castor will mix with any methanol fuel. I have often added castor to Cool Power/

jess

(in reply to liquid_TR)
       Post #: 102

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning...... - 12/21/2007 1:56:08 PM   
Flyboy Dave



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Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		You can add 4-6 ozs. of castor to the Cool Power and gain the benefits and protection
of the castor....as well as the pleasant scent.

Here are some other suprising things castor can do, that no other oil can.

http://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/newsletter1-4.html

FBD.



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       Post #: 103

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning....... - 12/21/2007 2:40:47 PM   
Flyboy Dave



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quote:

ORIGINAL: liquid_TR

Dave, I know you said "to be continued"

I bet you will talk about why would they fail and why; even tho most of us are using the
manufacturers recommended oil ratios in our glow engines. (18-20%)


There are two things that differentiate castor from all the other oils. One is the way castor
runs (literally) to a hot spot in the engine and lubricates the part that needs it the most at
that moment. The other oils will run (literally) away from a hot spot, and engine
damage can result.

Secondly, the castor has such a high flash point that very little of it "burns", rather it leaves
the engine still as a lubricating oil. You could squeegee that oil from the surfaces of your
plane and re-use it. This intact oil carries a great deal of heat out of the combustion chamber
with it.

The synthetics oils flash (burn) away in the combustion chamber when the air/fuel mixture is
burned in the power stroke of the engine. What happens when something "burns" ? It creates
even more heat. That is why the engines run so much hotter with the synthetics. Extra
heat is created, and it is not carried away, like in the example of the castor.

Keep in mind that we run several times more oil in our aero-model engines than is used in
regular two cycle ball and needle bearing engines. We have to run all that oil because of the
need of our plain bushings on the rod end and wrist pin of the connecting rod, no other reason.

FBD.


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       Post #: 104

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning....... - 12/21/2007 4:52:33 PM   
gkamysz


 

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From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave

The synthetics oils flash (burn) away in the combustion chamber when the air/fuel mixture is
burned in the power stroke of the engine. What happens when something "burns" ? It creates
even more heat. That is why the engines run so much hotter with the synthetics. Extra
heat is created, and it is not carried away, like in the example of the castor.

FBD.



That is accurate in theory. The problem is how much heat is carried away or added by the oils? In reality it's very little. If synthetic oil is burning you should see lower fuel consumption. That would be simple to measure.

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       Post #: 105

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/21/2007 7:13:55 PM   
proptop



Posts: 4635
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: Rome, NY, USA
Status: online 		Yeah...like when it overheats and siezes...that'll be a drastic decrease in fuel consumption!

Wise guy comments aside...
Do you mean that the oil being burned will be acting as a "fuel" itself?


Downunder has commented several times about the oil carrying heat away, and figured how much oil is exhausted per cycle, etc. etc. and that figured out to "not much" (for want of a better term )
I think the oil does carry away SOME heat, but not perhaps as much as we might think? (JMO )


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       Post #: 106

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/22/2007 5:09:50 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13522
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		In reality quite a bit of heat is removed from the engine by the castor oil. Those who run
plenty of castor can attest to this....it is not a theory. Put your hand 12 inches from the
exhaust outlet of an engine running wide open with lots of castor in the fuel. Let the oil
collect on your hand. Is it hot ? You bet it is....very hot.

quote:

If synthetic oil is burning you should see lower fuel consumption. That would be
simple to measure.


Even though burning oil, and creating heat does effect the engine temperature, it would be
quite a stretch to try to include the oil as fuel. The fact of the matter is....with air cooled
2-stroke engines, when the engine gets hot....the power of the engine is reduced because
of the heat/friction losses. This is the same with all engines, however these losses can be reduced
with improved cooling (water cooling) and improved lubrication. This is one of the reasons for oil
coolers. By keeping the oil cooler you can reduce the losses of the engine from heat, as
well as keep the oil below it's breakdown point. Most oils begin to fall, meaning reduced lubrication
(which results in more heat) at a certain temperature.

This is where the castor oil gets it's crowning glory. When other oils "break down", their film strength
(the ability to keep metal parts from rubbing together) dissapears....the parts start making metal to
metal contact....bye-bye engine....catostropic failure ensues.

This is another area....where if one had done their oil testing, one would have discovered that
castor oil....and only castor oil....will flow towards the hot spot and provide lubrication that can, and
will prevent failure of the engine.

There is no other oil that does this.

When two stroke engines run at peak performance and heat up....and as the power begins to
diminish, more fuel( richness) must be applied to cool the engine down and maintain peak power.
This is the reason that the assumption that burning oil (more heat) can somehow increase the fuel
economy....is incorrect. Just the opposite transpires. In fact, the more fuel you pour into a two cycle
engine running wide open, the more power it will produce, up to a certain point. The burning of fuel
produces power, nothing else.

Power (fuel burning) produces heat, not fuel economy.

FBD.

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An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
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(in reply to proptop)
       Post #: 107

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/22/2007 1:19:42 PM   
gkamysz


 

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From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		You must have many hours on the dyno and countless reams of data to present that knowledge. I bow to your knowledge and drop from the thread until I can come close to the experience you have with model engines to prove such quantifiable information with only words.

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       Post #: 108

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/23/2007 4:26:06 AM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13522
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		....well Greg....I have much more than words to go by, thank you.

Think about this....why do we have to richen up our two cycle engines 3 to 6 hundred
RPM's before we launch our planes ? When we have our planes at rest, and running wide
open....we can set our RPM at absolute maximum, right ? This is at a setting of maximum
power....RPM, and maximum HP, right ? All good, right ?

But, we cannot fly at this maximum power setting, can we ? We cannot allow the engine to
run wide open, even at rest....we must richen the engine 3 to 6 hundred RPM because the
engine will build up heat, and start to lose RPM. The engine will begin to sag and overheat
if we do not richen it up.

What happens if you peak an engine to maximum power/RPM, and then launch the plane ?
Now we increase the load on the engine because it is now tasked with dragging our airframe
through the air. This adds even more heat, and compounds the problem.

Don't believe me ? Tune your engine to maximum rpm and launch your plane. You won't make
3 laps before your engine overheats and dies. As you know, you must richen the engine before
launch to compensate for the extra heat from the added load, and the fact that the engine is
running at maximum power, which in itself causes mucho heat.

The same thing applies to almost any engine you want to run wide open. You can put an engine
on the dyno....set for maximum power....and wind that engine up tight and measure maximum
power....no problem. But you better not run that engine for more than 30 seconds or so, because
that engine will over heat.

FBD.



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An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
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(in reply to gkamysz)
       Post #: 109

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/23/2007 6:24:09 PM   
gkamysz


 

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From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		If the engine is not designed to be run at full power for more than 30 seconds it will overheat. In an engine fuel mixture does play a part in operating temperature. However engines can be designed to operate at full power for extended periods of time. Do model engines sag because they are overheating, or are they simply designed to be run rich to control ignition timing with the needle rather than compression ratio?

Model airplane engine fuel systems are EXTREMELY simple. If you don't richen it up on the ground at ground RPM it will go lean in the air. You don't run it rich on the ground so it runs rich in the air. You run it rich on the ground so it is optimum in the air. There is nothing wrong with setting the engine to operate at peak power in the air assuming everything is set up correctly. Few model aircraft installations are ideal from many standpoints.

What is the real cooling effect of running the engine rich? It is NOT the few percent of excess oil running through the engine! It is the excess methanol whose latent heat of evaporation is high, that doesn't get burned and therefore doesn't contribute any heat to the engine.

If you think the oil is contributing to cooling just increase the oil percentage by 5% and fly the engine at peak RPM on the needle. Let me know what your temperature is.

Define engine load. Engine load is the ratio of engine output to rated output at a given engine speed. So we know that engine load is in fact not changing simply by definition. I'll give you that engine power changes after takeoff. but is a change of 10% enough to overheat the engine? Or is it really that the mixture goes lean and advances ignition timing?

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       Post #: 110

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/24/2007 1:48:17 PM   
Flyboy Dave



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Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Greg....

....thank you for the response, however I wish to stick with the topic of castor oil.

You might want to look into your theories about mixture and ignition timing, because
you assumptions about them are incorrect....influenced I would suspect from some of
the incorrect theories about engines talked about here at RCU.

FBD.

_____________________________

An engineer says.... "That won''t work".
A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
"Old Age, and Treachery will overcome youth and skill".
Revver Bro #4.

(in reply to gkamysz)
       Post #: 111

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/24/2007 3:49:09 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		I hope this stays friendly. It appears to have run the full course.

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RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/24/2007 3:56:10 PM   
gkamysz


 

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Joined: 6/24/2003
From: Crystal Lake, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I thought the topic was glow fuel.

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Greg

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       Post #: 113

RE: I love the smell of glow fuel in the morning..... - 12/24/2007 4:04:16 PM